Time to think

[Stevo_fl]

"Who made the universe?"
"God"
"Alright then, who made God?"
"No one made God, he's eternal"

Yawn.

A slight problem with all of the above though.. Observation suggests that linear time is a product of the expanding universe. Our concept of cause and effect (I throw a pie, some time passes, then the pie twats you in the face) is rather closely associated with what we perceive as the passage of time. Once you take time away, our construct of how one event might lead to the next becomes rather useless.

Conditions prior to the expanding universe are unfathomable, but there is no immediate evidence to suggest that in the absence of expansion, linear time would exist. So while words like "eternal" sound like a stupid cop out when you think like a being who exists within linear time, take time away and forever might be quite commonplace. Without time, there's no before or after.

Now, how you get from speculating the possible nature or eternity to the existence an all powerful, pan-dimensional jealous bully who's fiddling about with interest rates because someone is praying they get a home loan is beyond this modest intellect. Even if you call per-expansion conditions "God", that doesn't mean you have to hack your foreskin off.

[Smellyoldgit]

We did some galactically wonderful stuff with time in here, but I don't recall successfully linking the wonders of the space-time fabric into foreskin hacking - but I'm all ears ....

[alwinwarrens]

Who told you have to hack it? Its not compulsion.

[ririku4545]

Stevo_fl wrote

"Who made the universe?"
"God"
"Alright then, who made God?"
"No one made God, he's eternal"

The bible is full of paradoxes. Just as the one you stated here. Preachers and people of religion says and demands that we believe that we did not just come out of nowhere, but we were intelligently designed. If they always talk about cause and effect, what created God? Surely using the logic they just used there needs to be an explanation for God as well and not just humans. Probably why I get pissed off when they say the Abrahamic God is the God of "LOGIC" xD

[Michael]

Stevo_fl wrote

Even if you call per-expansion conditions "God", that doesn't mean you have to hack your foreskin off.

God made man in his image: except for that pesky foreskin, that part was an oppsidoodles and is just icky.

[ILOVEJESUS]

The "what made God?????" question is neatly handled with the answer, "we can never know as it is too way out of our level of understanding"!!! Magic, mixed with exactly 5% of faith and 43% of enough mystery to add your own imagination. The other 52% is a bit smelly and comes from a male cows bum.

[Node18]

if "god" is capable of being eternal then the universe is as well. religitards get caught up in so many loops of their own creation

[Stevo_fl]

Well actually Node, the point here ifs that the universe is expanding and that expansion would appear tho be associated with linier time. So the universe probably isn't eternal. Observation suggests that it had a beginning. However, conditions outside the universe may not allow linier time to exist an may therefore have features that might be called eternal. None of this suggests a god, but remember,what we call tim may simply be a characteristic of universal expansion and not the"forever clock" that we perceive. If there were a god he could be eternal by not experiencing time, just like e.m. energy as it moves about on space.

[Saturday]

this is a bit off topic at the moment but does anyone know if virtual particles have been confirmed experimentally?

[Smellyoldgit]

Saturday wrote

this is a bit off topic at the moment but does anyone know if virtual particles have been confirmed experimentally?

This Scientific Amurrikan piece seems to suggest so, but I'm no expert in the field.

Thus virtual particles are indeed real and have observable effects that physicists have devised ways of measuring. Their properties and consequences are well established and well understood consequences of quantum mechanics.

*sigh* - where's Choobus when you need the fucker.

[ILOVEJESUS]

This is a solid explanation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle

[Saturday]

Smellyoldgit wrote

This Scientific Amurrikan piece seems to suggest so, but I'm no expert in the field.

Very nice article! Sounds like they've been experimentally proven. Good to know.