Free Will

[Kate]

happywarrior wrote

I wuv you to kate.

[Tenspace]

KnowledgeIsPower wrote

That's a form of emergence. So was my example.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/properties-emergent/

You'll find only passing references to self-organization. So I would call it incorrect to say "emergence is about self-organized systems" exclusively which seems like what you were implying.

Not completely; of course, I didn't go into references to weak and strong emergence either. The key is "essence" - emergent properties from mechanical devices are a byproduct of thought, and the components arbitrary - we could just as easily substitute car, or boat, or motorcycle for airplane. This type of emergence has been around since we learned to make tools. Self-organized emergent properties are discoveries waiting to happen; someone with a specialization in AI should be able to see that. Remember Life? Do you see the difference between humans building an airplane and a few simple functions - be they mathematical or biological - that exhibit behavior worthy of being called emergence?

[Tenspace]

Kate wrote

AAAAUUUGGGHH! KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!1!!

Damn dream.

[Kate]

Tenspace wrote

Not completely; of course, I didn't go into references to weak and strong emergence either. The key is "essence" - emergent properties from mechanical devices are a byproduct of thought, and the components arbitrary - we could just as easily substitute car, or boat, or motorcycle for airplane. This type of emergence has been around since we learned to make tools. Self-organized emergent properties are discoveries waiting to happen; someone with a specialization in AI should be able to see that. Remember Life? Do you see the difference between humans building an airplane and a few simple functions - be they mathematical or biological - that exhibit behavior worthy of being called emergence?

Whether we want to consider my airplane example as worthy of being called emergence or not is irrelevant. I'll gladly admit that I'm wrong on that if you really think I am because it doesn't hurt my objection to ubs' argument because the brain is most certainly a self-organizing system. Also, arguing that as a whole, the brain can't do something because its constituent parts can't do it by themselves is a fallacy of division.

[ghoulslime]

Kate wrote

I like bunnies. I like them a lot. I am happy that somebody started this bunny thread so that we can all talk about bunnies.

[Kate]

Bunnies, paste/glue, fire, peeps.

[ghoulslime]

Kate wrote

Bunnies, paste/glue, fire, peeps.

I don't like to eat bunny peeps because I feel really bad when I bite the bunny. I don't mind the chicky peeps so much, except for when I first bite the head off.

[Kate]

[ghoulslime]

Kate wrote

That is so tacky and wacky. Keep it out of your cracky, Jacky.

[ghoulslime]

KnowledgeIsPower wrote

So you see KIP, Free will seems to be in short supply here. LOL. Just a little prompting in the right direction and you can get a cascade of expected results. I must say there does seem to be a bit more of an effect than I had hoped for.Thank you all for participating in this test.

Free will and influence are not the same things Happy. To say that because you have influenced someone or something in a certain direction does not preclude free will in any way. If I say "chocolate chip cookie", and you just pictured a warm, fresh from the oven, chocolate chip cookie in your mind, does that eliminate free will because you thought about it? No, I merely influenced you (your brain specifically) to think about that.

[Kate]