Soapater's Dumping Ground...

[Philboid Studge]

You seem to forget that I was an atheist for many years. I thought it was completely OK to take things home from my work. Now I know it is stealing. I got in my fair of fights. I didn't think violence was wrong. I didn't get a chance of adultery but I wouldn't have said no. Lying was something you did to keep out of trouble.

Shorter Soapy: I am a lying, thieving douche-nozzle who's too ugly to get laid.

[Node18]

nkb wrote

This has nothing to do with you having been an atheist (bullshit), but everything to do with being an immoral asshole. If you need Christianity to keep you from criminal activities, I urge you to never stop believing in your fairy tale, because you appear to be a sociopath.

If I ever met your parents, I would slap them for being completely incompetent.

Good thing the vast majority of people are decent human beings, unlike you.

I don't mean to come across as a cunt but where do we Atheists get our morals from if not from these douchebags?

[Sternwallow]

Sopater48 wrote

So... what you are saying is you all make up your own morals? In other words you all do what ever you like?


No wonder Britain is broken.

In other words we adopt the intrinsic morality of our species, you know, the ones hijacked and claimed by religion. I think it is reasonable to reject religious morals like the command to be happy while smashing babies on rocks.

If you are willing to accept those criminal behaviors as moral, you are to be severely mocked, dunce.

[Node18]

Sternwallow wrote

In other words we adopt the intrinsic morality of our species, you know, the ones hijacked and claimed by religion. I think it is reasonable to reject religious morals like the command to be happy while smashing babies on rocks.

If you are willing to accept those criminal behaviors as moral, you are to be severely mocked, dunce.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Choobus]

One definition of a total cunt might be someone whose actions are abhorrent to the moral sensibilities of most people. In this case, these total cunts need an infusion of phony morality to minimise their natural cuntishness. Therefore, perhaps religion is a source of social good, in that it is largely the province of such total cunts who seem to need it, like a redneck needs moonshine.

[Sternwallow]

I thought you were against lying, naughty soaper.

Sopater48 wrote

Christianity is about community. It is about doing good, together.

Why do you misrepresent Christianity thus. You and I and everyone else knows that Christianity is about doing whatever it takes to keep your own individual keester safe from eternal flames for a tiny crime that your ancestors were trapped into committing.

As your dear brother has told me, atheism is all about individuality.

Atheism is all about not having enough evidence to believe in any god. It is not a willful rebellion, it is an inescapable logical conclusion.

You do what you want. You set your own moral code, each one his or her own.

As explained previously, accept moral tenets that have some basis in reality.

This might be ok for one or two who have a strong consience[sic] yet sadly it doesn't work for a society as it encourages selfishness.

Selfishness is simply the instinct for survival that many would claim was God-given. Selfishness is commanded by the Bible ("Hate your parents and your siblings and everyone else to earn salvation" approx.)

Its ok when only a few are living that way, but now a large proportion of the country have stopped living up to the goodness of God.

Do you mean the brutal jealous wrathful genocidal dishonest and murderous "goodness" of God?

So the uk[sic] is a sad and broken country.

I see a happy and prosperous country kept from its fullest flowering because it is hag-ridden by clergy. Unbelievable travesty against the populace, I know, but clergy have even infested the sacred halls of government with unearned seats in Parliament.

It is not about where a person is, it is the direction they are travelling[sic]. Your past is not important, your future is.

How easily you discount both original sin and the past transgressions that everyone has as being unimportant. If they are so unimportant, why do you claim that some guy died so that you can pretend that they are expunged from the record?

My future is where reality will carry me, not a path carved in fog by a farcical phantom.

Your future is to be mocked as much as you provoke by your foolishness.

[Sternwallow]

Choobus wrote

One definition of a total cunt might be someone whose actions are abhorrent to the moral sensibilities of most people. In this case, these total cunts need an infusion of phony morality to minimise their natural cuntishness. Therefore, perhaps religion is a source of social good, in that it is largely the province of such total cunts who seem to need it, like a redneck needs moonshine.

You make a good case for broader use of shackles truncheons and confinement of anyone who claims to get their morals from religion. You can do anything you want, up to and including mass murder, if you are convinced that God is on your side and wants what you want; just ask any passing Amalekite.

[Choobus]

Sternwallow wrote

You make a good case for broader use of shackles truncheons and confinement of anyone who claims to get their morals from religion.

I'm down with that

[Irreligious]

Sopater48 wrote

Christianity is about community. It is about doing good, together. As your dear brother has told me, atheism is all about individuality. You do what you want. You set your own moral code, each one his or her own. This might be ok for one or two who have a strong consience yet sadly it doesn't work for a society as it encourages selfishness. Its ok when only a few are living that way, but now a large proportion of the country have stopped living up to the goodness of God.

So the uk is a sad and broken country.


It is not about where a person is, it is the direction they are travelling. Your past is not important, your future is.

According to some counts, there are more than 30,000 separate Christian communities in existence. Hence, there is no one, worldwide Christian community "doing good together." Instead, there are 30,000+ separate Christian communities doing what they want, apart from what the other 29,999+ other Christian communities are doing. They're separated by specific dogma, tenets, rituals, culture, race, social class and politics.

Most of them purport to have strong prohibitions against lying, stealing, committing random acts of violence and engaging in adulterous behavior. But guess what? So do the bulk of atheists. You know why? Because they're considered by most humans to be anti-social behaviors.

And you know what else? Regardless of religious indoctrination or the lack thereof, there are still lots of folks who violate these rules and rationalize them. And even in the midst of doing wrong themselves, they still criticize others who break the rules while hypocritically holding themselves blameless. For some people out there, it doesn't matter how they were indoctrinated, because they are only going to be as faithful to their professed ideals as their options will allow them to be.

If they think they can lie and steal without getting caught, they will, even some of those who profess to be Christians and claim that God is always watching. How else do you account for wicked clergy and other Christians who don't practice what they preach? There have always been and always will be lying, thieving, violent and adulterous Christians, if those particular Christians think it's to their benefit to be so.

And, FYI: Atheism is not about "individuality." It's about "not believing in a god or gods." Period. When you come right down to it, we're all individuals, whether we're atheists or Christians or Muslims or Hindus or Scientologists.

What the vast majority of Christians share in common is a claim to believe that Jesus Christ is the supreme ruler of the universe. However, that says nothing specific about their individual morality because, clearly, believing that Jesus Christ is God is not a barrier to Christians being liars, thieves, purveyors of violence or perpetrators of adultery. If you have been paying attention to current events, you may have noticed that Christians are not even prevented from committing grievious acts against children. Nor does being Christian prevent them from attempting to cover up their misdeeds and shifting the blame to others.

Likewise, lacking adherence to a set of religious beliefs is no barrier to leading a good and moral life while also shunning behaviors that are deliberately injurious to others.

Now, if you need to believe in the supernatural in order to behave yourself, by all means, do what you have to to keep your impulses in check. But don't project your moral failings onto others. Not everyone is like you. We don't all require the threat of an allegedly invisible super power to avoid being shitty people.

Sopater48 wrote

Let's try and home in on some agreed morals.


Do you think the following are wrong?

Lying?

Stealing?

violence?

Adultery?

Please.

Irreligious wrote

...And, FYI: Atheism ... It's about "not believing in a god or gods." Period. .

So why did Mr.Sternwallow tell me that "atheist morals were more binding?"

There are either atheist morals or there are not. Please decide amongst yourselves before you continue to debate.

[Irreligious]

Sopater48 wrote

So why did Mr.Sternwallow tell me that "atheist morals were more binding?"

There are either atheist morals or there are not. Please decide amongst yourselves before you continue to debate.

Mr. Sternwallow did not claim that there were specific morals that could be attributed solely to atheists. What he was trying to convey to you is that atheists, whatever their individual moral perspectives, have to take ownership of their actions. In other words, there is no God for them to credit for why they behave or a Satan to blame for why they misbehave. That's what makes their individual morality binding: They have to take responsibility for what they do.

Atheism is not a religion.

Furthermore, the problem you face in claiming that there is a community of Christians sharing the same morals is attempting to explain the wide variance in Christian behaviors. Since you can't, what you end up doing is asserting that those Christians who don't share your moral values exactly are, in essence, not "real Christians."

As I have pointed out to you, Christians, like atheists, have a wide variety of moral perspectives. Some are decent people and some are not.

Here's the thing, Sopater: It doesn't really matter what people profess to believe. It only matters what they actually do or don't do. And some of the biggest Christ boosters out there do horrible things despite all their pious preaching. Open your eyes, man.

[Philboid Studge]

Do you think the following are wrong?

Lying?

Stealing?

violence?

Adultery?

The answer to all of these is the same as the answer to the question, 'How does Soapy prevent shit from soiling his Barcalounger?'

Depends.

[Irreligious]

Sopater48 wrote

Please.

What is wrong with you? Are you seriously expecting anyone here to defend lying, stealing, violence and committing adultery for one's own personal satisfaction, regardless of the harm these actions may cause to others?

Let me ask you why you think these behaviors are wrong? Is it because you're concerned about offending/injuring your fellow human beings who would be hurt by these behaviors? Or are you more concerned about offending the sensibilities of a god against whom you could never retaliate, even if you wanted to?

If you are the latter kind of person, then I guess you really do need an all-powerful god to keep you in check. But again, not everyone is like you. Some people are naturally endowed with a genuine sense of empathy (and a real conscience) and do not aspire to harm other people just because they can.

Maybe that is why when you weren't religious, you were, by your own admission, not a very nice person. It seems you have to work really, really hard at being nice. Some people don't have to work that hard at it.

[Sternwallow]

Sopater48 wrote

Please.

You have proven to be so dense and disingenuous that we no longer have any obligation to answer what you apparently think is a tricky question.