"They're not scientists, they're falsifiers of science!"

David Irving, Holocaust Denier, has been jailed:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/farright/s...714403,00.html

Wouldn't it be nice if we had this kind of attitude towards Creationists? We could call them "Evolution Deniers" and say (correctly) that "They're not scientists, they're falsifiers of science."

[Philboid Studge]

I think it sets a terrible precedence that Irving was jailed. You can call him a hack, an anti-Semite, a fraud -- whatever. But he should be not branded a criminal, Austrian laws notwithstanding. The proper response is to show evidence why he's full of shit, and if that doesn't shut him up, to ignore him. Throwing him in jail turns him into a martyr in the eyes of skinheads around the world and will probably only draw attention to his half-baked theories (which by the way do not deny the fact of the Holocaust but underestimate the number of people murdered by about half).

While Holocaust was/is undeniable, the number of victims should be dispuable until proven exact

The exact number will never be proven exact. My take on this is that most Holocaust deniers deny not to seek the truth, but in fact LIE to provoke hatred. Austria with only 8,000 Jews in their population don't have to have the law be so severe, but both Austria and Germany know what happened in the War years, and they know that many propoganda lies helped fuel the flame, and they mostly are trying to make up for it.

[Philboid Studge]

I agree with much of what you say baconeater, but I think the draconian law of imprisoning somebody for being a hateful* moron will have the unintended consequence of drawing undue attention to his bogus claims.

*Honestly, I don't know whether this guy is hateful or anti-Semitic or what-not -- I've never read anything by him and I never will. He may very well just be exploiting a hateful world: he knows there will be a lucractive market for H-denying -- in book sales, the talk-show circuit, free publicity, etc.

Mixed feelings, honestly, but I thought it would be fun to at least speculate.

When I think of Kent Hovind I kind of get the feeling that he would be happy to outlaw evolution if he could...

Oh alright, Irving shouldn't have gone to prison. Still: A nice thought, isn't it?

[Jahrta]

Re: "They're not scientists, they're falsifiers of science!"I think it sets a terrible precedence "that Irving was jailed. You can call him a hack, an anti-Semite, a fraud -- whatever. But he should be not branded a criminal, Austrian laws notwithstanding. The proper response is to show evidence why he's full of shit, and if that doesn't shut him up, to ignore him. Throwing him in jail turns him into a martyr in the eyes of skinheads around the world and will probably only draw attention to his half-baked theories (which by the way do not deny the fact of the Holocaust but underestimate the number of people murdered by about half)."

I agree - evidence should be (and has been) provided to show exactly why Irving is full of shit

"Re: "They're not scientists, they're falsifiers of science!"While Holocaust was/is undeniable, the number of victims should be dispuable until proven exact"

One would have been too many

[Jahrta]

While we're at it, can we fine Mel Gibson and has raving asshole father for committing the same crime?

Nobody every remembers the Japanese concentrations camps in California.

Philboid Studge wrote

I agree with much of what you say baconeater, but I think the draconian law of imprisoning somebody for being a hateful* moron will have the unintended consequence of drawing undue attention to his bogus claims.

*Honestly, I don't know whether this guy is hateful or anti-Semitic or what-not -- I've never read anything by him and I never will. He may very well just be exploiting a hateful world: he knows there will be a lucractive market for H-denying -- in book sales, the talk-show circuit, free publicity, etc.

This just goes to show what's wrong with Europe. Europeans look down on Americans because we don't have nipples on TV, but all the bullshit hatespeech laws in Europe would never fly in America. Here's a hint, your country doesn't have free speech if you can be thrown in jail for 3 years for saying something.

[GodlessHeathen]

Cap'n Awesome wrote

This just goes to show what's wrong with Europe. Europeans look down on Americans because we don't have nipples on TV, but all the bullshit hatespeech laws in Europe would never fly in America. Here's a hint, your country doesn't have free speech if you can be thrown in jail for 3 years for saying something.

Now, wait just a second. I'm all for nipples on TV.

peepnklown wrote

Nobody every remembers the Japanese concentrations camps in California.

"Interment" camps, buddy. Bad/poor conditions, yes, and I think they should not have been captive, but "concentration" is a little too lethal-sounding for what happened. There were all kinds of activities for the kids (Boy Scouts, even, believe it or not). Not a picnic, but not what happened in Europe, either.