Origin of Religion

[anthonyjfuchs]

snap crafter wrote

You realize that that was two days ago, right? Or are you mormon now?

Randomest Post of the...er...Weekend?

[Gnosital]

I've studied a lot of neuroanatomy, and I never heard of a brain structure called "the religious part". Belief in sky fairies not innate, such silliness is acquired from culture.

If human culture taught only rational thought instead of nonsense, the tendency for brains to perceive sky fairies would disappear from the species. Even psychotics would not tend to have delusions of sky fairies, because the subject matter of delusions and hallucinations is also culturally determined.

[Gnosital]

Just Us Chickens wrote

I disagree I think that ignoring the greater worries of life happens just as much for non believers as for believers. It wouldn’t surprise me that they have less stress because they have a better social network than many nonbelievers. They also think they have a sky daddy waiting to smack down people who are mean to them. I cant count the number of times I heard growing up “don’t worry god will take care of it”

Yep. Social support is inversely correlated with stress.

Possibly stupidity is also.

[Sternwallow]

Gnosital wrote

I've studied a lot of neuroanatomy, and I never heard of a brain structure called "the religious part". Belief in sky fairies not innate, such silliness is acquired from culture.

If human culture taught only rational thought instead of nonsense, the tendency for brains to perceive sky fairies would disappear from the species. Even psychotics would not tend to have delusions of sky fairies, because the subject matter of delusions and hallucinations is also culturally determined.

I would disagree just a little bit about the cultural nature of delusions and hallucinations.

There is a section of the frontal lobes that judges what incoming information is part of us versus what is external to us. When there is damage or impediment to this part of the brain, we feel "at one with the universe", that "our ego disappears in the cosmic consciousness" because we have lost the self/other boundary.

Similarly, when the brain is starved for oxygen, the common perceptions of floating above one's body and of moving in a dark tunnel toward a blissful light occur. The subject matter is only secondarily interpreted with cultural features so the silhouette in the bright light may be Jesus, Allah, a demon or Grandpa Max.

Both of these plus vivid dreams naturally and mistakenly lead ignorant people to notions of afterlife eternal.

[Gnosital]

Sternwallow wrote

I would disagree just a little bit about the cultural nature of delusions and hallucinations.

There is a section of the frontal lobes that judges what incoming information is part of us versus what is external to us. When there is damage or impediment to this part of the brain, we feel "at one with the universe", that "our ego disappears in the cosmic consciousness" because we have lost the self/other boundary.

Similarly, when the brain is starved for oxygen, the common perceptions of floating above one's body and of moving in a dark tunnel toward a blissful light occur. The subject matter is only secondarily interpreted with cultural features so the silhouette in the bright light may be Jesus, Allah, a demon or Grandpa Max.

Both of these plus vivid dreams naturally and mistakenly lead ignorant people to notions of afterlife eternal.

It's not that simple, Sterny. Yes, the frontal lobes are involved in association functions, particularly the prefrontal areas are important for planning, sequencing and initiating behaviors, and also for judging consequences of anticipated actions. If the prefrontal area is damaged, these functions are impaired (see Kluver Bucy Syndrome, prefrontal lobotomy/leukotomy and even the sad story of Phineas Gage). But people with prefrontal damage do not routinely hallucinate. The "oneness" thing you are talking about is more associated with temporal lobe seizures.

I've been looking for more detailed neuranatomical research on hallucinations since this came up in another thread, but work takes a lot of my play time away. If we're talking about schizophrenia-induced hallucinations, my money's on the structural abnormalities of the hippocampus, amygdala, entorhinal cortex, parahippocampal gyrus and cingulate cortex, in short, the limbic structures. Paired with hypoactivity of the prefrontal areas, and even more importantly, the accelerated loss of cortical neurons in sensory association areas of the entire cerebrum, and you have some processing dysfunction for sure. Prefrontal is involved, but as far as I know, neither stimulating it nor lesioning it is a particularly potent method for producing hallucinations.

By the way, schizophrenics are often aware of the fact that they're hallucinating.

My point was that in a HEALTHY (props to Cal; "aka atheist") brain, there is no structure or system that in and of itself 'creates' belief in the supernatural. When exposed from an early point in life to irrational explanations, or when left to imagine causal relationships for natural events without scientific information, any human brain will create the most logical patterns possible with the information available. If that information is shite, then the brain is more likely to create shite.

It's just that it doesn't HAVE to work that way, nor does it ALWAYS work that way. What would be the logical explanation for atheists if there actually was a "jeebus/mohammed/vishnu nucleus" in the brain?

By the other way, hallucinations are culturally influenced. Before the 20th century, there weren't any schizophrenics hallucinating about little green men from outer space. Now there is a greater tendency toward delusions and hallucinations that have to do with government conspiracies and terrorism. Different cultures hallucinate about different demons and spirits.

[Sternwallow]

Gnosital wrote

It's not that simple, Sterny. Yes, the frontal lobes are involved in association functions, particularly the prefrontal areas are important for planning, sequencing and initiating behaviors, and also for judging consequences of anticipated actions. If the prefrontal area is damaged, these functions are impaired (see Kluver Bucy Syndrome, prefrontal lobotomy/leukotomy and even the sad story of Phineas Gage). But people with prefrontal damage do not routinely hallucinate. The "oneness" thing you are talking about is more associated with temporal lobe seizures.

I've been looking for more detailed neuranatomical research on hallucinations since this came up in another thread, but work takes a lot of my play time away. If we're talking about schizophrenia-induced hallucinations, my money's on the structural abnormalities of the hippocampus, amygdala, entorhinal cortex, parahippocampal gyrus and cingulate cortex, in short, the limbic structures. Paired with hypoactivity of the prefrontal areas, and even more importantly, the accelerated loss of cortical neurons in sensory association areas of the entire cerebrum, and you have some processing dysfunction for sure. Prefrontal is involved, but as far as I know, neither stimulating it nor lesioning it is a particularly potent method for producing hallucinations.

By the way, schizophrenics are often aware of the fact that they're hallucinating.

My point was that in a HEALTHY (props to Cal; "aka atheist") brain, there is no structure or system that in and of itself 'creates' belief in the supernatural. When exposed from an early point in life to irrational explanations, or when left to imagine causal relationships for natural events without scientific information, any human brain will create the most logical patterns possible with the information available. If that information is shite, then the brain is more likely to create shite.

It's just that it doesn't HAVE to work that way, nor does it ALWAYS work that way. What would be the logical explanation for atheists if there actually was a "jeebus/mohammed/vishnu nucleus" in the brain?

By the other way, hallucinations are culturally influenced. Before the 20th century, there weren't any schizophrenics hallucinating about little green men from outer space. Now there is a greater tendency toward delusions and hallucinations that have to do with government conspiracies and terrorism. Different cultures hallucinate about different demons and spirits.

The theists still would have their ordinary fall-back position, even if a god-structure were found, that it is the part placed there by God to enable us to hear Him, our tuner device, in effect. Some of them even go so far as to suggest that we do not have an amplifier section downstream from this part and that is why God speaks in a "still small voice".

[PanAtheist]

Thats not what sane people said!

PanAtheist wrote

http://www.bushspeaks.com/img/bush_borg.jpg

OH SHI-