Veridican Theory of Hell

[Smellyoldgit]

lostsheep wrote

Srsly? This guy has a mental health license of some sort?

I think you'll find he provides basket-weaving support services for the terminally retarded religious wards.

[ghoulslime]

lostsheep wrote

He just sounds desperate at times, and I picture him as borderline or even out-right delusional, based on what he writes. But I suppose you are correct; there are many crazies and some of them are politicians, now that I think about it (depressing).

Yeah, that's the same vibe I get from him. He is as creepy (and I would guess dangerous in real life) as any delusional theist we have ever had on our forum.

[psychodiva]

oo I'm looking forward to meeting the rubber atheists- much better than the real ones I hear

[ghoulslime]

psychodiva wrote

oo I'm looking forward to meeting the rubber atheists- much better than the real ones I hear

Was there anything in particular that you needed rubbed?

[psychodiva]

[ghoulslime]

psychodiva wrote

Oh, totally! There are few things that I would rather do than lay back and get a 2 hour foot massage. If there is a heaven, it will certainly involve foot massages.

[Egor]

Eternal wrote

When you first started posting here Veridicanism was purely for you and your wife. It has evolved from that to a replacement for the biggest religion in the western world. Can you understand why people on here are worried about either your stability, or your intellectual honesty? Personally I believe you knew all this when you first started posting, but you had an image in your head of how you should present yourself, a big part of this self image was humility. Saying you are going to replace christianity is not humble, so you avoided taking this stance.

It’s not going to replace it in numbers or churches. It’s replacing it theologically. Maybe not today; maybe not tomorrow, but eventually it will.

So if the only way to the father is through christ (i'm going to presume christ is real momentarily) what about all those people that live and have lived without any knowledge of christ. There must be millions if not billions burning in hell who never even had an opportunity to follow christ, through no fault of their own. Is this just? Is this the way? It is definitely part of your truth.

No it’s not part of my truth. Most people are annihilated. The line that partitions off the substance of God that forms them is simply not sustained by God any longer. Hell is for those who know about Christ and reject him. Which is pretty much every atheist in this forum.

You failed to answer my question on this matter earlier in the thread, as far as I am concerned making you unable to answer the same question Joel Osteen failed to answer. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and repeat the question in case you missed it.

Imagine a man who spends his whole life sinning, never contributing to society in a positive way. Hurting people unashamedly, with no remorse. Then at the age of seventy, after committing one final rape he gives himself to jesus with all his might, he reads the bible for 8 hours a day and lives by what you define as its guidelines. He dies one month after then goes to the father in heaven.

Man number two. He loves humanity, lives a life of self sacrifice to help others. The majority of his life is spent helping the sick and dying, working towards providing better facilities for the living, mostly at his own expense both emotionally and financially. He doesn't consider religion much, he certainly doesn't adhere to any as he is far too busy helping people, leaving him no time to do something as selfish as worry about his eternal soul.
By your definition man number two would go to hell.

Well that’s easy; I don’t even have to think about it. Man #1 goes to heaven. Man #2 roasts in hell. You just don’t get it, do you? You just can’t get your head around why God created man in the first place.

If one accepts Jesus Christ, then they are repentant from the state they are in and they are using their free will to give up their free will and take on the will of God, thus eventually, leading to a union with God that glorifies God. That’s why we exist. Sin is ultimately anything that keeps us from Christ.

God can do all the good works Himself if He wants to; He doesn’t need help. He can prevent any bad acts as well; He doesn’t need the police.

You just don’t have a conception of what God is and why you were made.

The questions. Is this just? Do you not think that any realistic description of a just and loving father must include provisions for such cases?

Just according to whom? Me? God? You? God is the only one deciding what is and isn’t just. If you think logic, morality, rationality, justice, whatever exists independent of God, you’re don’t understand God. God wouldn’t be God if that were the case.

So now you believe that veridicanism will be the last one standing in terms of following christ. Your delusions of grandeur grow by the post. (I know, I know, they are not delusions, just what god has told you).

You say delusion of grandeur; I say hope for the future. Whatever.

[orangeitis]

Seems like you guys will need these. Feel free to use them.

[Kinich Ahau]

Neato!

[Eternal]

Egor wrote

It’s not going to replace it in numbers or churches. It’s replacing it theologically. Maybe not today; maybe not tomorrow, but eventually it will.

Well done, that manages not to answer the question at all.

You say hell is for those that know Christ and reject him, like most atheists on here. So are you saying all these people that didn't accept Christ because they didn't know him go to heaven, or is there a third place for them that I am unaware of? You didn't explain this part very well.

You also state that the answer to my question about the two men is easy. Is it? The one you condemned to hell lead a life which surely conforms much closer to the example set by Jesus in his own life. Also, if this mans efforts are fruitless, then why did Jesus also heal the sick? Why would god make us so incapable and unlikely to comprehend what he deems as good or just, are we not in his image? Or was it just foresight so that heaven didn't get too crowded.

I can't be bothered to answer all your points individually, needless to say that you have yet again contradicted your earlier posts.

I can appreciate what you are saying, and I understand the principles from my own theistic days, I just can't believe that the glaringly obvious problem of it being complete bollocks seems to pass you by without question.

Good luck with whatever ventures you partake in, hopefully one of them at some point will coincide with reality.

[Michael]

Egor wrote

Well that’s easy; I don’t even have to think about it. Man #1 goes to heaven. Man #2 roasts in hell. You just don’t get it, do you? You just can’t get your head around why God created man in the first place.
...
God can do all the good works Himself if He wants to; He doesn’t need help. He can prevent any bad acts as well; He doesn’t need the police.

So I guess next time there is an earthquake, we should tell the emergency response "it's cool, god's got this. You just go to church.".

Next time someone is raped "Don't you worry, god doesn't need the police for this one. Off to church now."

I am curious about something. Let's say it was Sunday morning. You had gotten up early to make some toast, or porridge, or whatever it is you like to treat yourself to in the morning. Suddenly, the electricity spikes. Sparks fly, catch onto something flammable and before you know it there is a fire. It soon starts to build up steam, and you're trying to fight it off. You grab your fire extinguisher, but it malfunctions.
And by this point it's too late, anyway. The fire has really started to spread now. In fact, it's gotten all the way to the bedroom, where your wife was sleeping. You go to get her, but a support beam falls, blocking your way, and trapping her in the inferno.

You have no choice but to run. You dash outside, calling the fire brigade.
"Help me," you beg, "my house is on fire and my wife is trapped inside."
The voice on the other end is understanding, but not very helpful.
"I'm sorry," she says, "But we all are at church. We don't want to risk going to hell by helping you when we should've been worshipping. But don't you worry, god has got this. He doesn't need the police or the firemen".

You can do nothing but stand there and watch as the flames engulf your house, and above the crackling roar of the fire, you think you can hear your wife's tortured screams.



Is that really what you believe?

[Kinich Ahau]

Egor wrote

Hell is for those who know about Christ and reject him. Which is pretty much every atheist in this forum.

Will there be much gnashing of teeth?

[ghoulslime]

Kinich Ahau wrote

Will there be much gnashing of teeth?

Of course not! But there will be much brushing of teeth. Lucifer is in to proper dental hygiene, you know?

[lostsheep]

Egor wrote

No it’s not part of my truth. Most people are annihilated. The line that partitions off the substance of God that forms them is simply not sustained by God any longer. Hell is for those who know about Christ and reject him. Which is pretty much every atheist in this forum.

So then it would be much better for us if we never heard of your god: so why are you damning us to hell by preaching at us? What a horrible thing to do! My god would so judge you for knowingly condemning others to hell, and you would so go to hell for that.

Egor wrote

Well that’s easy; I don’t even have to think about it. Man #1 goes to heaven. Man #2 roasts in hell. You just don’t get it, do you? You just can’t get your head around why God created man in the first place. If one accepts Jesus Christ, then they are repentant from the state they are in and they are using their free will to give up their free will and take on the will of God, thus eventually, leading to a union with God that glorifies God. That’s why we exist. Sin is ultimately anything that keeps us from Christ.

I think I get some of it: It's all about giving glory to god forever and ever, and to hell with human beings who don't get this or who don't believe this or who don't want to spend an eternity praising an entity that wants to be praised for all eternity.

I have to wonder why, if all your god wants is eternal praise, it bothered making human beings who would not give it the praise that it craves. It's almost like your god created people so it could send them to hell. Being omniscient and all, you'd think it would have known this would happen.

Egor wrote

God can do all the good works Himself if He wants to; He doesn’t need help. He can prevent any bad acts as well; He doesn’t need the police.

Yup, it's quite clear that your god doesn't give a shit about good works or the evil done by human beings to other human beings, or all of the horrible things that happen to people and animals in general. According to you, all he cares about is that we worship him to the exclusion of everything else, no matter what, and eternally.

Btw by human moral standards your god is quite evil.

Egor wrote

You just don’t have a conception of what God is and why you were made.

Well, your explanation doesn't make much sense.

Egor wrote

God is the only one deciding what is and isn’t just. If you think logic, morality, rationality, justice, whatever exists independent of God, you’re don’t understand God. God wouldn’t be God if that were the case.

But if that's the case then we would not perceive god's actions as evil or illogical or unjust, because his actions would embody these quantities. Unless you are saying that god gave us faulty perceptions, deliberately setting us up for failure and hell.

Egor wrote

You say delusion of grandeur; I say hope for the future. Whatever.

I say rape and murder are evil, you say they are good if god says so. Clearly, we do not communicate on the same plane, so further correspondence with you is pointless.

Why are you here again? Hoping to spread your insane view of the world?

[lostsheep]

ghoulslime wrote

Of course not! But there will be much brushing of teeth. Lucifer is in to proper dental hygiene, you know?

Smellyoldgit wrote

I think you'll find he provides basket-weaving support services for the terminally retarded religious wards.