Censorship

[thomastwo]

I don't think the spirit and ethos of this forum is enhanced by the censorship that is being promoted by the mods in allowing nkb to post without allowing contrary opinions.

It seems like atheists are too frightened to allow their arguments to be exposed to contrary opinions.

As far as I can see the original idea behind TFT was to have threads that were absent of trolls and not as a mechanism to allow personal attacks free from dissenting opinon.

I propose that the mods no longer support nkb's immunity from argument.

Any free-thinkers support me? Or are you all following the leader on this one?

[Sternwallow]

You never had free speech as free as it is enabled, yes, and necessarily managed, here.

You can even set up your very own blog where no-one else can post. You might wish to publish a book. You can keep people off the street from inserting pages of their own stuff into each copy you print. Neither the blog nor the book is under imposed censorship.

But, you want to invade nkb's thread, that was not set up as a discussion or a debate, and post anyway. This is the standard ploy of you theists: go where you are not wanted and then try to convince people there to believe what you believe, behave as you behave, deliberately disable our intellects, and take on all of the, to us, evil and immoral attributes found in a book of ancient fables.

You disparage free speech here knowing that anywhere else you would have been summarily banned at the first sign of dissent from the local line.

I am very pleased with the solomonic wisdom shown by our mods over a very long track record. I am not here to follow a leader, but because the leaders behave as I wish them to; they follow me.

I think that you could spend a little more effort getting over yourself, T2.

[ubs]

One of the weaknesses of our judicial system is that anyone can sue and while in continues to be a place to resolve conflict without violence more often than not it is used by the mentally ill to behave destructively.

Likewise I think the absence of censorship on the internet which is intended to enhance the exchange of ideas has primarily become a means by which the mentally ill destroy communities.

No one wants to plant a garden on a vacant lot because at any time vandals can rip the thing out. Likewise the absence of judicious moderation discourages people from investing in a site.

If you feel that what you have to say is so fascinating that it must get it out, there's always blogger...or you could just find comfort in telling yourself that no one talks to you because your arguments are so profound.

[ghoulslime]

thomastwo wrote

I don't think the spirit and ethos of this forum is enhanced by the censorship that is being promoted by the mods in allowing nkb to post without allowing contrary opinions.

It seems like atheists are too frightened to allow their arguments to be exposed to contrary opinions.

As far as I can see the original idea behind TFT was to have threads that were absent of trolls and not as a mechanism to allow personal attacks free from dissenting opinon.

I propose that the mods no longer support nkb's immunity from argument.

Any free-thinkers support me? Or are you all following the leader on this one?

Nobody gives a shit what you think, blood drinker.

[ghoulslime]

ubs wrote

One of the weaknesses of our judicial system is that anyone can sue and while in continues to be a place to resolve conflict without violence more often than not it is used by the mentally ill to behave destructively.

Likewise I think the absence of censorship on the internet which is intended to enhance the exchange of ideas has primarily become a means by which the mentally ill destroy communities.

No one wants to plant a garden on a vacant lot because at any time vandals can rip the thing out. Likewise the absence of judicious moderation discourages people from investing in a site.

If you feel that what you have to say is so fascinating that it must get it out, there's always blogger...or you could just find comfort in telling yourself that no one talks to you because your arguments are so profound.

You make an excellent analogy. Thomas the zombie eater is nothing more than a common troll. She would have been banned on most Internet forums a long time ago. (Except for cock worshiping forums) Faced with her inability to present a rational defense of her irrational position as a blood drinker, she chooses to disrupt our forum, spamming our precious bandwidth with raving idiocy. Absent a legitimate argument for her divinely-dogmatic, cannibalistic ways, her purpose here is to cause as much disorder as possible. Her very presence here is an attempt to silence the atheists - to censor us. Then with the bloody froth of her redeemer Sun god running down her grotesque chin, she has the audacity to throw her poo pancakes and accuse our humble forum of censorship.

By the way, how many threads has Carico...um...Thomas infected with the same accusations of censorship? At what point is this considered spam?

[Professor Chaos]

It's a quotes thread you fucking 'tard. If you don't like it, start your own thread. (I see you've done that. And a very mature one, at that.)

It's no different than the "Quote Page" or "Rant of the Week" or any other 'List of quotes about _____" type thread in which the Creator of that thread wishes it to remain just a list.

Your definition of "censorship" is as convoluted and retarded as your attempt at...humor? sarcasm? making a point? ... whatever the fuck you're trying to do in your other thread.

Actually, the concept of TFT was introduced by the one and only Professor Chaos and was aimed at me (quelle surprise!). It has been used, as you see, to create a safe harbor from which to launch guerrilla warfare and is a pathetic admission of weakness. It would be so much easier, so much more honest, to ban the members they don't want here but they have backed themselves into a corner. Because they really believe that they are open-minded and that this isn't a private club, they don't like to ban. That would be too obvious. But, equally, they hate arguments from articulate sorts who don't respect the dirty-minded, ignorant prattle that too often passes for "discussion" here.

What to do? What to do? It is easy to see the problem. Not so easy to see a solution that allows them to consider themselves valiant warriors of free speech.

Of course, the Obaminator's "Net Neutrality" will likely make the whole issue moot, soon. And the RAs mute!

Oh look!! While I was writing the master himself has checked in!! Well, there you have it-- direct from the horse's a mouth!

[Irreligious]

I'll let you in on a "secret," thomastwo: This is an atheist forum. And, while theists are "welcome" here, it's mostly as fodder.

There's no real debate going on here. Never was. You can't debate someone's faith.

Says the man who wouldn't know a debate if he fell over one. Yes, there did used to be lots of actually rather good debates here. The quality began to drop off quickly when you and your sort become the dominant voices here.

[Mog]

Nothing is preventing you from leaving to a forum where there is good debates, Lily. Not that you have ever been a good debater.
(And Irreligious, Sternwallow, and um, just about everyone who you've denigrated as being stupid, have been better debaters than you.) This forum happens to allow quite a bit of flaming, and even some trolling, so its not exactly a debate style forum anyway.




So Lily, would you like some help finding those places, or have they already kicked you off for being a borderline troll, like you are here?

[Irreligious]

Lily wrote

Says the man who wouldn't know a debate if he fell over one. Yes, there did used to be lots of actually rather good debates here. The quality began to drop off quickly when you and your sort become the dominant voices here.

You are clueless, Lily.

There is no debate when the parties are enjoined from reaching agreement on the central premise of the argument. You insist you can know what is unknowable. What's to debate?

Edited: And be honest, Lily. You don't want to "debate." You want to "win."

[Captain Relativity]

Lily wrote

Says the man who wouldn't know a debate if he fell over one. Yes, there did used to be lots of actually rather good debates here. The quality began to drop off quickly when you and your sort become the dominant voices here.

You want debate? Fine. I propose a debate: Does the Mad Cow qualify as one of the most annoying far-right-wing Catholic cunts of all time? Let the debating begin.

[ubs]

Mog wrote

Nothing is preventing you from leaving to a forum where there is good debates, Lily. Not that you have ever been a good debater.
(And Irreligious, Sternwallow, and um, just about everyone who you've denigrated as being stupid, have been better debaters than you.)

masters even

The dilemma for atheist sites in general, not just this one, is that you can't really have engaging conversations about what you don't believe in. You have to find common interests and that takes time. But people want something more immediate when they are surfing so instead of trying to build something the atheists bicker with the trolls.

Bickering with trolls brings down the level of discourse and so people leave, but no one is willing to concede the problem until the critical mass is so small that the Trolls themselves are what keeps the place alive.

[Irreligious]

ubs wrote

masters even

The dilemma for atheist sites in general, not just this one, is that you can't really have engaging conversations about what you don't believe in. You have to find common interests and that takes time. But people want something more immediate when they are surfing so instead of trying to build something the atheists bicker with the trolls.

Bickering with trolls brings down the level of discourse and so people leave, but no one is willing to concede the problem until the critical mass is so small that the Trolls themselves are what keeps the place alive.

That's the nature of the beast if we don't share the same view of reality. The alternative is a heavily moderated forum.

You can't have a reasoned conversation about about wholly unverifiable matters when the parties can't agree on the plausibility of the assertions being "debated." That's not a debate. It's a recipe for vituperation and recriminations or the Raving Atheists Forum.

ubs wrote

masters even

The dilemma for atheist sites in general, not just this one, is that you can't really have engaging conversations about what you don't believe in. You have to find common interests and that takes time. But people want something more immediate when they are surfing so instead of trying to build something the atheists bicker with the trolls.

Bickering with trolls brings down the level of discourse and so people leave, but no one is willing to concede the problem until the critical mass is so small that the Trolls themselves are what keeps the place alive.

Actually, I think this is a pretty fair statement of the reality of this forum but is evading the larger point. An atheist site qua atheist site has no point whatever, unless it engages with theists. It has no other reason for being. How long can you sustain a forum on chanting "theists are dumb; we're so smart and morally superior"? In 50 different variations?

But to claim that there is nothing to debate, when clearly there is, is dodging the issue. Either your (speaking corporately, not of you individually) atheism is grounded in reason or it isn't. When members continually demonstrate a child's understanding of the issues; when they clearly do not have a notion what the Bible teaches and try to build a case (for or against whatever) on nonsense, then the forum can only become a bickering mob when those who disagree weigh in. (Let's leave aside the nonsense of other religions. You have a beef with Christianity-- that is what your families, neighbors and culture are, even if only superficially) It is hard to see the point of an atheist site that has to dodder around until it becomes evident that the members share an interest in Schwartzenegger movies, beer and scrapple recipes. If you want to talk beer, aren't there beer forums?