06-23-2005, 06:14 AM
|
#1
|
Guest
|
I was raised a xtian...I've heard several conflicting answers to this question....most different denominations say something else...I'm curious, christians, how do you get to heaven?
The bible says you have to accept christ and you get to go to heaven. What if you accept him and then kill people? I know..."...you have to repent too", but what if you're a fundie, and you accept christ and then you think he's telling you to bomb abortion clinics? You honestly think that it's god's will and all that crap so do you still get to go to heaven?
|
|
|
06-23-2005, 08:55 AM
|
#2
|
Guest
|
Quote:
Bighead wrote
I was raised a xtian...I've heard several conflicting answers to this question....most different denominations say something else...I'm curious, christians, how do you get to heaven?
The bible says you have to accept christ and you get to go to heaven. What if you accept him and then kill people? I know..."...you have to repent too", but what if you're a fundie, and you accept christ and then you think he's telling you to bomb abortion clinics? You honestly think that it's god's will and all that crap so do you still get to go to heaven?
|
You were raised christian so what do you think the answer is based on what you've read? What does it mean to accept christ's payment for your sins? There's a whole lot of meaning wrapped up in that word "accept".
|
|
|
06-23-2005, 09:17 AM
|
#3
|
Guest
|
I don't have my bible here with me at the moment, so I am ill-equipped to tell what I think, because I would need to reference...but in a few hours, I will be home, and with any luck, I'll have time tonight to give a better response...but basically...
From what I understand, you accept jesus as your saviour, then you're forgiven. You repent for your sins, and you get to go to heaven. That's the only thing that I've found that you actually have to do (and I'm not even sure that the bible actually spells out repenting as a qualification for a gate-pass).
I've heard people talk about having to be baptised (mormons), but I never found where it says you HAVE to be baptised (must be a book of mormon thing).
But...asking for forgiveness and repenting sounds fine and great, but that still leaves the predicament, what about the guy who believes he is doing god's will. He's totally sane otherwise, he just thinks that abortion is so bad that the people who commit it should be stopped at all costs....and he feels that god's law supercedes mans law so he doesn't care if he's actually breaking the law...he's repented for his sins and been "saved"....I don't know how this one would work out up there at those white gates of oyster guts...I'm just interested in opinions.
|
|
|
06-23-2005, 10:29 AM
|
#4
|
Guest
|
Quote:
Bighead wrote
From what I understand, you accept jesus as your saviour, then you're forgiven. You repent for your sins, and you get to go to heaven. That's the only thing that I've found that you actually have to do (and I'm not even sure that the bible actually spells out repenting as a qualification for a gate-pass).
|
Basically that's correct. Repentence is regretting - saying I made a boo-boo and I'm sorry.
Quote:
Bighead wrote
I've heard people talk about having to be baptised (mormons), but I never found where it says you HAVE to be baptised (must be a book of mormon thing).
|
Not required, but recommended as a public demonstration of your faith. Mormons take 1 Corinthians 15 and read it to say you can baptize dead people into heaven. Weird.
Quote:
Bighead wrote
But...asking for forgiveness and repenting sounds fine and great, but that still leaves the predicament, what about the guy who believes he is doing god's will. He's totally sane otherwise, he just thinks that abortion is so bad that the people who commit it should be stopped at all costs....and he feels that god's law supercedes mans law so he doesn't care if he's actually breaking the law...he's repented for his sins and been "saved"....I don't know how this one would work out up there at those white gates of oyster guts...I'm just interested in opinions.
|
Putting god first in your life means you desire to do what he wants. You're a changed person because you're living for god not yourself. What does that mean really – to do god’s will? Does it mean you bomb abortion clinics and break the law whenever you want? I don't think so, because the big-picture message is love god & love people despite their sins and let god do the heavy lifting. Not to say you shouldn't stand up for certain things, but you should do so within a certain context and at the right time. There are times when breaking the law is the best thing to do.
The message of the NT is clear - you are saved by god's grace, not by works, however good works will be an outward sign that you are saved. That is why I question the salvation of “christians” who consistently act like rotton people. There’s a difference between a person that seeks to do rotton things, and a person who struggles and occasionally does something terrible. In the end it doesn’t matter what you and I think about a person because god knows the heart/desire/motives of a man and he will decide what to do. You just take care of yourself.
|
|
|
06-23-2005, 10:42 AM
|
#5
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Giant rock hurtling through space
Posts: 767
|
"There are times when breaking the law is the best thing to do."
Uh... I'd like an example. Law is more important than religion, it's the one controller we all share, regardless of religion. Sure, go ahead and tell people to not get abortions. Bombing the clinic? You belong in jail.
“Whoever attacks the popular falsehoods of his time will find that a lie defends itself by telling other lies.” - Robert Ingersoll
|
|
|
06-23-2005, 10:45 AM
|
#6
|
Guest
|
Quote:
Kamikaze189 wrote
"There are times when breaking the law is the best thing to do."
Uh... I'd like an example. Law is more important than religion, it's the one controller we all share, regardless of religion. Sure, go ahead and tell people to not get abortions. Bombing the clinic? You belong in jail.
|
If the law says drive no faster than 60 mph and you had to speed to save a person's life then I think it's better to break the law. Do you agree?
|
|
|
06-23-2005, 10:47 AM
|
#7
|
Guest
|
wow...one point to lurker
|
|
|
06-23-2005, 10:51 AM
|
#8
|
Guest
|
Not if your endangering the lives of those your trying to speed around to save this christian you decided you liked. why not let him die and meet his maker?
|
|
|
06-23-2005, 10:57 AM
|
#9
|
Guest
|
what about a woman in premature labor? I would speed for any woman in premature labor and I am DEFINITELY not a xtian.
I'm going to agree with Lurker on this one that sometimes it is okay to break the law. There has to be a good reason for it, and it can't be breaking the spirit of the law. Most people don't seem to understand that there is the writing of the law, and the spirit of the law, meaning what purpose was said law created to serve.
|
|
|
06-23-2005, 11:14 AM
|
#10
|
Guest
|
Quote:
Bighead wrote
what about a woman in premature labor? I would speed for any woman in premature labor and I am DEFINITELY not a xtian.
I'm going to agree with Lurker on this one that sometimes it is okay to break the law. There has to be a good reason for it, and it can't be breaking the spirit of the law. Most people don't seem to understand that there is the writing of the law, and the spirit of the law, meaning what purpose was said law created to serve.
|
If you are putting other people in danger by attempting to save this woman surely this is not a justified braking of the law. Otherwise, it is OK to break the law in this case. However, it is one thing to break a traffic law and a completely different situation if you are killing people.
|
|
|
06-23-2005, 11:18 AM
|
#11
|
Guest
|
Quote:
RedRob wrote
If you are putting other people in danger by attempting to save this woman surely this is not a justified braking of the law. Otherwise, it is OK to break the law in this case. However, it is one thing to break a traffic law and a completely different situation if you are killing people.
|
Correct, but I believe that lurker simply stated that sometimes breaking the law is okay....I don't think he mentioned killing people.
|
|
|
06-23-2005, 11:20 AM
|
#12
|
Guest
|
Quote:
RedRob wrote
If you are putting other people in danger by attempting to save this woman surely this is not a justified braking of the law. Otherwise, it is OK to break the law in this case. However, it is one thing to break a traffic law and a completely different situation if you are killing people.
|
I agree - context is everything. What if you see a person in imminent danger of being killed by another person so you move in and kill that person before they kill. Is that breaking the law, and if so was it the best thing to do?
|
|
|
06-23-2005, 11:31 AM
|
#13
|
Guest
|
Quote:
lurker wrote
Quote:
RedRob wrote
If you are putting other people in danger by attempting to save this woman surely this is not a justified braking of the law. Otherwise, it is OK to break the law in this case. However, it is one thing to break a traffic law and a completely different situation if you are killing people.
|
I agree - context is everything. What if you see a person in imminent danger of being killed by another person so you move in and kill that person before they kill. Is that breaking the law, and if so was it the best thing to do?
|
OK :D I'll play along with that.
How imminent is this danger?
|
|
|
06-23-2005, 11:38 AM
|
#14
|
Guest
|
You kill a man you think is about to kill another? You couldn't of knocked him out or simply alerted the man in danger? you got control issues then.
|
|
|
06-23-2005, 11:47 AM
|
#15
|
Guest
|
Quote:
RedRob wrote
OK :D I'll play along with that.
How imminent is this danger?
|
That's the crucial question. In my imaginary scenario only 3 people are there to determine how imminent the danger is. If you determine it's so imminent that the guy must be killed then how would you argue against that?
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:42 AM.
|