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Old 09-13-2009, 07:41 PM   #16
nkb
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Professor,
I have to generally agree with Choobus, but I don't quite understand the purpose of this compromise.

Does your wife already belong to a church? Does she attend services? If she does, what needs to change? If she doesn't, and it would make her feel better if she did, why does the whole family need to join?

Finally, why do you and your wife need the assistance of a church (however diluted and harmless it may seem) to imbue proper morals in your kids? I'm sure you guys are well equipped to accomplish this task without the turd polishers.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
George Bernard Shaw
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:24 AM   #17
VladTheImpaler
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When I started this reply I pretty much wrote the same thing as nkb, so I deleted it, read his reply once more.

I also want to ask if you think it is impossible convince your wife through reasoned argumentation that her position is not logically sound and that it's not neccessary to beleive these things in order to feel good? Don’t have to feel good all the time either, if sadness is experienced and accepted I feel this leads to greater understanding and indirectly improves happiness in life (at least in my life).

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then is he malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~Epicurus
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Old 09-14-2009, 04:22 AM   #18
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ghoulslime wrote View Post
Actually, I'm kinda envious of this. What do I need to do to get ordained? I can totally see it now...Reverend Ghoulslime! Reverend! People would be all like, "Ghoulslime, so I understand you don't believe that Jesus lives inside of goldfish shaped crackers!" And I would be all like, "That's Reverend Ghoulslime to you! I didn't spend $25 and 15 minutes filling out an online application for the Universal Life Church to be called 'Ghoulslime'!"

Reverend Ghoulslime! It sort of makes you want to treat me with more respect.

Do you think they would ordain Ghoulslime H Christ without a formal church hearing?
Good News, everyone, ordination in the Universal Life Church is free (as it ought to be for any real religion that isn't a money-grubbing scam ... oh, right). I got mine, with a certificate and everything, in '60 or '61.

http://www.ulc.net/

"Those who most loudly proclaim their honesty are least likely to possess it."
"Atheism: rejecting all absurdity." S.H.
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Old 09-14-2009, 04:29 AM   #19
Sternwallow
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VladTheImpaler wrote View Post
When I started this reply I pretty much wrote the same thing as nkb, so I deleted it, read his reply once more.

I also want to ask if you think it is impossible convince your wife through reasoned argumentation that her position is not logically sound and that it's not neccessary to beleive these things in order to feel good? Don’t have to feel good all the time either, if sadness is experienced and accepted I feel this leads to greater understanding and indirectly improves happiness in life (at least in my life).
Right! Every time I slam my finger in a car door, since the fourth or fifth time, the sadness helps to build my character and my vocabulary.

"Those who most loudly proclaim their honesty are least likely to possess it."
"Atheism: rejecting all absurdity." S.H.
"Reality, the God alternative"
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:16 AM   #20
Philboid Studge
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Sternwallow wrote View Post
Good News, everyone, ordination in the Universal Life Church is free (as it ought to be for any real religion that isn't a money-grubbing scam ... oh, right). I got mine, with a certificate and everything, in '60 or '61.

http://www.ulc.net/
Damn straight! Ordination is free. You aren't even required to have faith. And I hear it's possible to get an advanced degree -- at the low, low cost of $29.95 -- a Doctorate in Immortality. I know it sounds like I'm kidding but no.

The prayer page is a bit dopey (and overrun by Xstains). I added one from the Rev Phil:

Quote:
The power of prayer has proven time and again to be completely inefficacious and without merit. It is easily measurable by the simplest scientific tests and the verdict is clear: prayer has no effect whatsoever on external events. It is a waste of time.

Therefore let us pray that we all stop with the prayers already and <i>do something</i> to address our problems. Presumably "God" knows what you want already, so prayers are superfluous at best.

Amen

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Old 09-14-2009, 06:57 AM   #21
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OK! I'm almost on board. If one more person could just bear his testimony to me, I would be ready to make the lifelong commitment that the ULC deserves.

The Leprechauns do not forbid the drawing of Their images, as long as we color within the lines. ~ Ghoulslime H Christ, Prophet, Seer, Revelator, and Masturbator
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Old 09-14-2009, 10:26 AM   #22
Sternwallow
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OK! I'm almost on board. If one more person could just bear his testimony to me, I would be ready to make the lifelong commitment that the ULC deserves.
Ghoul, "Do It For The Children's Sake". Do not deny them your spiritual and physical council.

"Those who most loudly proclaim their honesty are least likely to possess it."
"Atheism: rejecting all absurdity." S.H.
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Old 09-20-2009, 09:50 PM   #23
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ubs wrote View Post
It depends on the group.

I grew up attending Unitarian Church. It was very hippy dippy. Lots of atheists and gays. Sermons were poetry readings, usually without a mention of any diety. They also took us on field trips to other places of worship, which did more for atheism than any comparative religion class...and they took us skiing. The teen sex ed class they taught was considerably more informative than health class. It was positive experience and I'm glad we went.

But the one near me now takes the Uni part of Unitarian very seriously. No atheists in site, which is why I go to the zen center instead.

I think Sunday morning family socializing is great, but I would shop the place without the kids before I committed them. Especially little ones that can't really articulate that Sunday School is run by a wacko.
This is my only knowledge of the Unitarian Church, which is why I was considering it. I still haven't had a chance to do much research. I figured we had some former/current Unitarians, which is why I came here first. If there are any other members who know about the Unitarian church, I'd love to hear it. I basically have the impression that Unitarianism is atheism in disguise, but I worry that it's a bunch of "not religious but spiritual" douches that would turn me off instantly.

In fact, I've pretty much come back to sanity and realize that this isn't for me.

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Old 09-20-2009, 09:51 PM   #24
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Smellyoldgit wrote View Post
I'll wager he's considered that - - - - but knows how unpalatable the result will be when thrown up.
Now, smelly, I'm insulted that you think I would refrain from posting a poll based on theorizing a result incompatible with my desired result. What do you think I am, Christian?

I will grieve. Grief is not a theistic concept. ~ Sternwallow
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Old 09-20-2009, 09:54 PM   #25
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nkb wrote View Post
Professor,
I have to generally agree with Choobus, but I don't quite understand the purpose of this compromise.

Does your wife already belong to a church? Does she attend services? If she does, what needs to change? If she doesn't, and it would make her feel better if she did, why does the whole family need to join?

Finally, why do you and your wife need the assistance of a church (however diluted and harmless it may seem) to imbue proper morals in your kids? I'm sure you guys are well equipped to accomplish this task without the turd polishers.
Like I said in response to ubs' post, I was expecting a gaggle of atheist/hippies really. Shame on me for insinuating that my wife and I need "help" instilling morals in my children, cause I really didn't mean that. Though the whole "community" thing helps, and that's what I was getting at. I'm really leaning away from this now. As Choobus(Phil?) implied, this was kind of a "someone just died and I feel awful and my wife wants to go to church but maybe I could dissuade her if we went Unitarian thereby not bowing before Jebus..." thing.

Militant Atheist has now resumed reason within the mind of Prof Chaos.

I will grieve. Grief is not a theistic concept. ~ Sternwallow
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Old 09-20-2009, 11:00 PM   #26
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Professor Chaos wrote View Post
Like I said in response to ubs' post, I was expecting a gaggle of atheist/hippies really. Shame on me for insinuating that my wife and I need "help" instilling morals in my children, cause I really didn't mean that. Though the whole "community" thing helps, and that's what I was getting at. I'm really leaning away from this now. As Choobus(Phil?) implied, this was kind of a "someone just died and I feel awful and my wife wants to go to church but maybe I could dissuade her if we went Unitarian thereby not bowing before Jebus..." thing.

Militant Atheist has now resumed reason within the mind of Prof Chaos.
Kudos; good on ya mate.

"Those who most loudly proclaim their honesty are least likely to possess it."
"Atheism: rejecting all absurdity." S.H.
"Reality, the God alternative"
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Old 09-20-2009, 11:36 PM   #27
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Militant Atheist has now resumed reason within the mind of Prof Chaos.
Glad to hear it amigo.

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Old 09-21-2009, 05:09 AM   #28
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Do Unitarians worship big units?

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Old 09-21-2009, 05:21 AM   #29
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This one does.

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Old 09-21-2009, 05:47 AM   #30
Eva
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thanks for listening to my advice, MilitantAtheist!

One of the most irrational of all the conventions of modern society is the one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected....That they should have this immunity is an outrage. There is nothing in religious ideas, as a class, to lift them above other ideas. On the contrary, they are always dubious and often quite silly.
H. L. Mencken
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