Student kidnaps Eucharist - commits mortal sin

[Philboid Studge]

eternalO wrote

Like I said, if you go up to get the wafer, you agree to eat it right there. If you don't want to eat the wafer, don't get in line.

I don't remember an "agreement." Is it real or one of those "goes without saying" thingies?

[Irreligious]

I've attended a few Roman Catholic Masses in my life and always had enough presence of mind to avoid following adherents of the religion up to the buffet line, as Philboid put it.

However, not every non Catholic understands the protocol in a foreign place of worship. I remember years ago wondering what I was supposed to be doing while the Catholic faithful were kneeling and rising during the Mass and finally figured I should just remain seated. It must have been the right decision since no one seemed to take offense at my action.

As I recall from the video, which is no longer available, Harper allowed himself to swept into the line of Catholic faithful advancing towards the priest for their wafers and may have realized too late that it's not always best to follow the adage "when in Rome..."

It seems to me that it was it that point that Harper placed himself in a no-win situation by either having to openly refuse the host or committing the "blasphemy" of accepting it without eating it on the spot.

Anyway, I agree with you eternal0vid, that if an outsider consents to set foot in a Catholic church, or a synagoge or a mosque, one should be mindful not to offend the folks inside it. However, it's sometimes a bit problematic for outsiders to avoid committing faux pas in these places of worship when they are unacquainted with the rules.

[Waddlie]

Lily wrote

If you hang out here for long, that will change. Of course, you will probably remain polite in real life.

It is no doubt true that spending time here can turn people a bit cunty. However, the proximate cause of said cuntiness is not the forum itself, but exposure to you - the ubercunt extraordinaire. Do stop tarring us with your own cuntibrush.

[nkb]

Absolutely, Waddlie.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have always been polite to theists in real life, including even the assholes that come to my door, pushing their bullshit.

In addition, I've never been impolite to most theists here that don't come to troll (the Quakers and Steve Gs of the forum).

It's hateful, condescending assholes like Lily that bring out the worst in people here. I don't apologize for treating her the same way she treats us.

But MoMMMMM! She made me do it!

[Irreligious]

Lily, how many times have you accused the folks here of dragging you down into the gutter?

So, isn't your response to nkb rather disingenous?

[Eva]

oh, gawwrshh, don't tell me she's playing stoopid again??

Irreligious wrote

Lily, how many times have you accused the folks here of dragging you down into the gutter?

So, isn't your response to nkb rather disingenous?

No. I am perfectly aware that I had and still have a choice. The ever-clueless nkb isn't. I am merely pointing out the obvious to him that we all have choices.

[Kate]

Eva wrote

oh, gawwrshh, don't tell me she's playing stoopid again??

Not "again". "Still".

[nkb]

Lily wrote

No. I am perfectly aware that I had and still have a choice. The ever-clueless nkb isn't. I am merely pointing out the obvious to him that we all have choices.

Now Lily thinks I need her to point out to me that we all have choices.

No shit we have choices! I choose to fight fire with fire, and I don't apologize for calling out a hateful, old shrew on her despicable views and appalling attitude towards others who don't share her views, in any way I see fit.

By the way, Lily: How are you in real life? Are you this much of an abrasive, condescending asshole outside of the internet?

[Kate]

Philboid Studge wrote

I don't remember an "agreement." Is it real or one of those "goes without saying" thingies?

Well, one thing which is widely known about Catholics is that they believe that the bread actually becomes the "Body of Jesus." The comments about "kidnapping" are thus rational from the Catholic perspective, and the only way in which a person can possess the "Body of Jesus" is to consume it.

Yes, it sounds a lot like cannibalism, but the interesting thing is that it really isn't cannibalism, by any definition and regardless of the beliefs of the person involved: from either an atheist or Catholic perspective, no one is eating a human body. The atheists recognize it as a wafer, and the Catholics don't consider Jesus' body to be human (at least, not right now). If the "spiritual flesh" isn't human, its not cannibalism and metaphorically no different from eating fried chicken.

Of note is that one has to be a baptized Catholic in order to be considered to be eating the "Body of Jesus" in the spiritual sense. An unbaptized non-Catholic is still just consuming a wafer if they happen to eat a blessed wafer.

Irreligious wrote

Anyway, I agree with you eternal0vid, that if an outsider consents to set foot in a Catholic church, or a synagoge or a mosque, one should be mindful not to offend the folks inside it. However, it's sometimes a bit problematic for outsiders to avoid committing faux pas in these places of worship when they are unacquainted with the rules.

Religion being the violence-inducing activity that it is, it'd take a rather naive person to assume that "not knowing the rules" is enough of a defense against unknowingly breaking any religion's rules.

Surely everyone has seen at least one "Star Trek" episode where Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway had to figure out some clever way of saving the crew member who unknowingly broke a religion's rules and was sentenced to death as a result? These shows don't get written ex nilio, they are based on human history and human psychology.

eternal0void wrote

Religion being the violence-inducing activity that it is, it'd take a rather naive person to assume that "not knowing the rules" is enough of a defense against unknowingly breaking any religion's rules.

Surely everyone has seen at least one "Star Trek" episode where Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway had to figure out some clever way of saving the crew member who unknowingly broke a religion's rules and was sentenced to death as a result? These shows don't get written ex nilio, they are based on human history and human psychology.

You get your understanding of reality from television? The boob tube? That is a bit of a problem ...

Last July (2008), an American professor (I forget the name and his name is not mentioned in the article) accepted a wafer in his hand, then filmed himself shoving a rusty nail through the wafer and throwing it into the trash (along with a banana peel, a Quran, and, oddly enough, a copy of "The God Delusion").

While most Catholic churches still allow "in the hand" as a method of receiving a blessed wafer, Pope Benedict requires Catholics who attend Mass in Rome to receive "on the tongue" while kneeling in front of the altar, and the priest giving out the wafers watches as the Catholic swallows. The inter-Catholic discussion on this is that every Catholic Church should institute this same practice to help prevent the kinds of "desecration" from July 2008 and the current student's efforts.

Personally I see no need to "desecrate" the Eucharistic wafers, especially from an atheist perspective: since God does not exist, the wafers are ordinary bread, and you might as well be desecrating a slice of Wonder Bread.

The sole purpose of such an action is to annoy Catholics, and as there are so many ways in which Catholics harm quality of life through their actions, taking time away from usefully annoying Catholics to doing something so totally pointless as desecrate a wafer is a waste of energy and gives support to the Catholics ("look at how terrible that atheist is").

Protest their anti-stem-cell research policies or yell at them for preventing condom use. Don't waste your time with the wafers.