The Dublin Horror Show - A Roman Catholic Hell

[Philboid Studge]

Broga wrote

Next step: Lily's confession and apology to us all: "Sorry, you were right. I am wrong. And I am now returning to the freedom of rational and atheistic thought."

I believe that Lily's apology will indeed be the next step.

(Mental reservation: ... right after winged monkeys fly out my arsehole.)

[Captain Relativity]

Broga wrote

And here, no Lily. She should have been all over us like a rash to defend the indefensible. Looks like on this one she is broken, no defence available, facts against overwhelming. Next step: Lily's confession and apology to us all: "Sorry, you were right. I am wrong. And I am now returning to the freedom of rational and atheistic thought."

The cow has already offered the only "apology" we're ever going to get by quoting Romans 3:23 - 'for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.' Hey, we all sin. Particularly those horny secular school teachers. They're the worst. So quit focusing on Church Clergy, you undereducated and thinking-impaired heathen scum.

I have said it before and I will say it again. You are certifiably insane, Broga. You should be sectioned. And take your idiotic echo chamber, Captain Relativity and the addled forum hophead with you. I have never defended the indefensible. Ever. But you people sure have a lot to answer for. You ignored pedophilia and allowed it to be made the next frontier to be conquered in the name of sexual freedom. You still don't remark on it in any other circumstance. Ever. Haven't you noticed? God knows, I have brought it to your attention frequently. Yet it just doesn't matter to you, does it?

Once it became clear that there were sexual predators to be found in the ranks of the clergy (which never should have been a surprise, given that priests are humans, just like everyone else), all of a sudden you lefty atheist nuts began to try and compete with middle America (and its European equivalent) for the moral high ground. For 20 years, until the clergy scandals broke, Pedophilia was down right "chic" among your sort. Writer Mary Eberstadt has been chronicling this crap for more than a decade. Most recently she reminds those of us with bad memories of a few more rather egregious examples:

1. New Republic, 1995. An article entitled Chickenhawk (pedophile slang for a young boy) discussed a short film about NAMBLA very sympathetically and questioned whether boys were not sometimes the predators in man-boy sex. It even asserted: "It might even be that a budding young stud had the upper hand over the aging, overweight loner". Did this raise eyebrows? Hah!
2. Vanity Fair, 1992. Whitewashed the scandal of a Phillips Exeter Academy teacher who had been caught filming boys in the showers and splicing the images into pornographic movies. It not only portrayed him as a victim, but conflated pedophilia with homosexuality by suggesting that this poor teacher had been forced into the closet by the atmosphere of the school.
3. The most egregious example of all. 1998 The Psychological Bulletin a peer-reviewed, prestigious, acadmic journal published "A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples". Its three researchers took issue with "the common belief that child sexual abuse causes intense harm, regardless of gender". They disputed such labels as "victim" and "perpetrator" and recommended that "a willing encounter with positive reactions" be labeled "simply adult-child sex". They compared consensual adult-child sex to "masturbation, homosexuality, fellatio, cunnilingus, and sexual promiscuity" behaviors the APA once considered pathological but no longer does. How much clearer could they make it that "adult-child sex" would someday be as normalized in therapeutic circles as had these other behaviours?
4. 1989. The Nation publishes a piece called "On Truth and Fiction", by a novelist who said that he had personally verified the story of the preparation and international transport of Haitian boys to boy-lovers with a taste for black children-- this at the height of the AIDS epidemic. Did this story raise an eyebrow among the "enlightened"? Like hell.

These examples could be multiplied endlessly. When was NAMBLA kicked out of most Gay Pride Parades? Hmmm? I can remember how much press their removal got in Boston, while I was still living there. Are your memories really so defective that you don't remember how hard many of you were working to normalize pedophilia, until very recently? Actually, look at the outcry in Hollywood over the "persecution" of Roman Polanski. While Katha Pollitt rightly noted recently that their reaction "shows the liberal cultural elite at its preening, fatuous worst.." and that it was "[n]o wonder Middle America hates them.", hers is the "new view". Pedophilia was well on its way to being acceptable among your sort until the Catholic priest scandals broke. In fact, reading reader comments to stories about the Polanski case can leave no one in doubt that for some subset the message hasn't been received:the girl got what she deserved; what's the big deal?; blah, blah, sickening blah.

I thank God that the crimes among the Catholic clergy have been uncovered for a lot of reasons. It is having beneficial effects that reach far beyond the Church itself. It will be decades, if ever, before anyone will dare claim that the sexual abuse of the young leaves no real and lasting damage. How many heart-wrenching images of grown men breaking down does it take for the message to get through? No longer will the very people who claimed that "adult-child" sex was or could be ok, be able to get away with it. Those people come from your side of the "freedom" from constraints on behavior" aisle not from mine.

[ghoulslime]

Lily wrote

I have said it before and I will say it again. You are certifiably insane, Broga. You should be sectioned. And take your idiotic echo chamber, Captain Relativity and the addled forum hophead with you. I have never defended the indefensible. Ever. But you people sure have a lot to answer for. You ignored pedophilia and allowed it to be made the next frontier to be conquered in the name of sexual freedom. You still don't remark on it in any other circumstance. Ever. Haven't you noticed? God knows, I have brought it to your attention frequently. Yet it just doesn't matter to you, does it?

Once it became clear that there were sexual predators to be found in the ranks of the clergy (which never should have been a surprise, given that priests are humans, just like everyone else), all of a sudden you lefty atheist nuts began to try and compete with middle America (and its European equivalent) for the moral high ground. For 20 years, until the clergy scandals broke, Pedophilia was down right "chic" among your sort. Writer Mary Eberstadt has been chronicling this crap for more than a decade. Most recently she reminds those of us with bad memories of a few more rather egregious examples:

1. New Republic, 1995. An article entitled Chickenhawk (pedophile slang for a young boy) discussed a short film about NAMBLA very sympathetically and questioned whether boys were not sometimes the predators in man-boy sex. It even asserted: "It might even be that a budding young stud had the upper hand over the aging, overweight loner". Did this raise eyebrows? Hah!
2. Vanity Fair, 1992. Whitewashed the scandal of a Phillips Exeter Academy teacher who had been caught filming boys in the showers and splicing the images into pornographic movies. It not only portrayed him as a victim, but conflated pedophilia with homosexuality by suggesting that this poor teacher had been forced into the closet by the atmosphere of the school.
3. The most egregious example of all. 1998 The Psychological Bulletin a peer-reviewed, prestigious, acadmic journal published "A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples". Its three researchers took issue with "the common belief that child sexual abuse causes intense harm, regardless of gender". They disputed such labels as "victim" and "perpetrator" and recommended that "a willing encounter with positive reactions" be labeled "simply adult-child sex". They compared consensual adult-child sex to "masturbation, homosexuality, fellatio, cunnilingus, and sexual promiscuity" behaviors the APA once considered pathological but no longer does. How much clearer could they make it that "adult-child sex" would someday be as normalized in therapeutic circles as had these other behaviours?
4. 1989. The Nation publishes a piece called "On Truth and Fiction", by a novelist who said that he had personally verified the story of the preparation and international transport of Haitian boys to boy-lovers with a taste for black children-- this at the height of the AIDS epidemic. Did this story raise an eyebrow among the "enlightened"? Like hell.

These examples could be multiplied endlessly. When was NAMBLA kicked out of most Gay Pride Parades? Hmmm? I can remember how much press their removal got in Boston, while I was still living there. Are your memories really so defective that you don't remember how hard many of you were working to normalize pedophilia, until very recently? Actually, look at the outcry in Hollywood over the "persecution" of Roman Polanski. While Katha Pollitt rightly noted recently that their reaction "shows the liberal cultural elite at its preening, fatuous worst.." and that it was "[n]o wonder Middle America hates them.", hers is the "new view". Pedophilia was well on its way to being acceptable among your sort until the Catholic priest scandals broke. In fact, reading reader comments to stories about the Polanski case can leave no one in doubt that for some subset the message hasn't been received:the girl got what she deserved; what's the big deal?; blah, blah, sickening blah.

I thank God that the crimes among the Catholic clergy have been uncovered for a lot of reasons. It is having beneficial effects that reach far beyond the Church itself. It will be decades, if ever, before anyone will dare claim that the sexual abuse of the young leaves no real and lasting damage. How many heart-wrenching images of grown men breaking down does it take for the message to get through? No longer will the very people who claimed that "adult-child" sex was or could be ok, be able to get away with it. Those people come from your side of the "freedom" from constraints on behavior" aisle not from mine.

The liberals made them do it?

Oh, my leprechauns! What a delusional meadow of prevaricated clovers this crazy old cow grazes in!

[dogpet]

The catholic church is one huge paedo ring & the right thing to do would be for the pope to hold his hands up on the balcony, & say, "okeh we are banged to rights for recruiting thousands of paedophiles & disguising them with a beard of celibacy. We will bar all of those caught sine die, & open up the priesthood to decent women & men in the future."
If you pay peanuts you get monkeys, so the church's policy of saving money with it's celebacy vow, has made it attractive to men who's needs are more about access to prey. For every one doing it, there are likely several more wanking off every time they get a kid in the next cupboard confessing they touched themselves.

[Kate]

[dogpet]

If they were serious about self policing they would have a vice division of teh Swiss Guard. Minicams planted in the sacristy & the threat of a spear up the arse would be a start.

[Philboid Studge]

'The beard of celibacy' sounds like a kind of merkin, or 'phony twat', if you will.

'addled hophead'? The 1920s called; they want their lingo back.

[Irreligious]

You're full of shit, as always, Lily.

The folks here have nothing to do with the outrageously licentious behavior of some of the priests (and nuns) in your church, nor the decades long coverup of these people's behavior by the hierarchy of the Catholic church. Remember, we're talking about non-consenting minors who have been victimized by folks who set themselves as being above the rest of humanity. You're a damned liar if you claim they don't assume that position in society.

Incidentally, these allegations of malfeasance by the stewards of your church clearly pre-date the so-called sexual revolution, and probably, by a couple of millennia. The fact is, the hierarchy of your vaunted church has enjoyed an unparalleled stature and authority that has likely allowed quite a few in that institution to act with utter impugnity, perhaps, for as long as the institution has existed.

Don't blame anyone here for the hypocrisy in your church. You, and you alone here, have to answer for that, because you're still supporting the institution as the world's moral arbiter.

There are no secular institutions that hold such a vaunted positions amongst us heathens here.

[nkb]

Let's ignore this tortured and twisted view of blaming the liberals for embracing pedophillia, notice that Lily doesn't mention even once the coverup of the RCC (quite apparently, still ongoing).

She thinks she can misdirect to the point where we are busy rejecting her accusations of us accepting pedophilia, to the point that she won't have to address the systematic coverup of crimes by the most organized of crime syndicates, the Vatican.

Pathetic!

Lily,
Here is a clue for you. The day we have a schoolteacher or administrator on this forum, who is defending the actions of a school board for covering up child rape, will be the day we pile on him/her.

Meanwhile, since this is an atheist forum, and you are the village idiot who is still trying to polish the turd that is the RCC, we will ream your ass over and over.

[Broga]

Lily. For goodness sake, Lily, do calm down. If you go on like this they will put you back in that nasty straightjacket. And you know how you hate that. Lie down in a dark room with a cold compress until you regain a measure of control of yourself. Perhaps you have a friend who could sit with you for a time until you feel better.

However, you have now taken the first step to regain your rational mental faculties. You recognise that the paedo priests and their archbishops infest the Roman Catholic church like weevils in the ships biscuits in Nelson's navy. No sooner do you say that than you immediately slip back - so disappointing. It seems that liberal lefties are to blame for misleading these innocent priests. My, my, Lilly, that is not very robust as a defence. The priests are the chosen, the exemplars, the beacons of light and virtue - you can scarcely argue that on the one hand and on the other set them up as so morally weak, easily corrupted that they succumb so easily.
I have no wish to bring on another bout of hysteria but you could also take account of the most vicious, cruel, lusting, sadistic brutes as the Roman Catholic nuns who ran the grisly laundries working hungry and weak children, whom they were supposed to be caring for, literally into their graves on occasion.
For the moment let us cling to that glimmer of acceptance from you: the acceptance of the priest perpetrated horrors of Dublin. As the man said - sadly I think it may have been Confucious and not St Augustine (one of your lot) -the journey of a 1,000 miles begins with one step.
PS. I think it is also important that you keep taking the pills - you may have stopped them too soon.

[Broga]

Lily. Perhaps I should have mentioned your statement that you "have never defended the indefensible." I tried to earlier but I think I may have bust a rib laughing. That, Lily, is the kind of hilarious comment which keeps us all laughing and hopes that despite you excesses - and they are many - they will continue to let you post. I am a fan of P.G. Wodehouse, said by better judges than myself to be the funniest writer in the English language, but some of your comments rival him at times.
He, of course, was deliberately comic; you are funny unintentially.

The harmonious wails of denial!! With precious little tweaking, let’s see what reality looks like:

Lilygous wrote

You're full of shit, as always, Lily Irreligious.

The folks here have nothing to do with the outrageously licentious behavior of some of the teachers in your schools, nor the decades long coverup of these people's behavior by the education hierarchy. Remember, we're talking about non-consenting minors who have been victimized by folks who set themselves as being above the rest of humanity trustworthy authorities. You're a damned liar if you claim they don't assume that position in society.

Incidentally, these allegations of malfeasance by the teachers in your schools clearly pre-date the so-called sexual revolution, and probably, by a couple of millennia [as deviants and abusers have always been with us]. The fact is, teachers have enjoyed an unparalleled stature and authority that has likely allowed quite a few in that business to act with utter impugnity, perhaps, for as long as the institution has existed.

Don't blame anyone here for the hypocrisy in our schools, just because we have fought like tigers for every deviant practice to be accepted as normal. We allow a sex tourist to boast of the young exploited girls and women he uses. We have 50 different names for every hideous and disgusting practice the ever fertile imagination of men can come up with. We ridicule chastity and the teaching of abstinence. We make no moral demands on anyone much less ourselves. But boy do we have that hypocrisy thing down. We will excuse every behavior, no matter how repulsive, except when it comes to light. Don't try to make me answer for child abuse in schools just because I am still supporting the institution that preys on the young and has for decades, while moving miscreant teachers around.

The only other secular institutions that hold such a vaunted positions amongst us are the NFL, (and a few other sports leagues), Hollywood, and the education establishement and they are pristine.

dogpet wrote

The establishment school system is one huge paedo ring & the right thing to do would be for the homosexual, NAMBLA admiring “School Czar” to hold his hands up on the balcony of Obama’s White House & say, [i]"okeh we are banged to rights for recruiting thousands of paedophiles & disguising them as teachers. We will bar all of those caught sine die, & open up the teaching profession to decent women & men in the future [who will be allowed to marry. Yeah. Marriage will fix the problem]."

nkb wrote

Here is a clue for you. The day we have a schoolteacher or administrator on this forum, who is defending the actions of a school board for covering up child rape, will be the day we pile on him/her.

Meanwhile, since this is an atheist forum, and you are the village idiot who is still trying to polish the turd that is the RCC, we will ream your ass over and over.

You are a fucking liar. I have already said that the bishops who covered up should go to prison. What else is there? Shall I start becoming a fan of the death penalty to satisfy you? Shall we execute all the clergy who were involved?

How much blood will it take, Tex, to make you happy? How much blood? How much blood will it take before you stop lying about my reaction to this story? How much? Would you like to drag a priest behind your truck, Texas style, to prove your purity? If I do it, will you stop accusing me of covering up or defending the criminals?

How much blood do you want?

[nkb]

Lily wrote

You are a fucking liar. I have already said that the bishops who covered up should go to prison. What else is there?

Admitting that there has been a systematic coverup of heinous crimes, for decades (at least), by all levels of the RCC, would be nice.

Admitting that the current pope knew what was going on would be refreshing.
Admitting that the RCC is anything but an institution with moral values, would also be a start.

Lily wrote

Shall I start becoming a fan of the death penalty to satisfy you? Shall we execute all the clergy who were involved?

I'm not following. How would that make sense, considering that I am not a fan of capital punishment?

Oh, wait, I get it. I live in Texas, which has the death penalty, which means everyone in Texas is a proponent of executions.
Can I put you down as being a proponent of incest, considering that you live in Alabama?

Lily wrote

How much blood will it take, Tex, to make you happy?

From you, or from the lying sacks of shit that run the RCC?

Lily wrote

How much blood? How much blood will it take before you stop lying about my reaction to this story? How much?

From you, full and unreserved condemnation of the RCC for aiding and abetting rapers of children, and facilitating further crimes in the name of trying to keep the scandal from breaking.
From the RCC, full cooperation with all authorities investigating all the crimes, which includes disclosure of all documents pertaining to these crimes, and turning over every known criminal, no matter how highly placed they are currently.

You know, doing the right thing, no matter what the consequences are. What do you think the chances are of that?

Lily wrote

Would you like to drag a priest behind your truck, Texas style, to prove your purity? If I do it, will you stop accusing me of covering up or defending the criminals?

My purity? WTF? What does this have to do with me? I have never raped anyone, nevermind a child. I have never, in any way, whatsoever, caused a child to be raped, by my actions or inactions. And, finally, I have never defended a child rapist, or those culpable of aiding and abetting a child rapist, and keeping a child rapist from prosecution.

Can you say the same?

Lily wrote

How much blood do you want?

You suck at trying to portray you and your RC buddies as the victims. Please stop before you embarrass yourself further.