Atheism+ .... To Be or Not To Be?

[psychodiva]

This is powerful and yes- I have had similar experiences- and I'm no shrinking violet and I am trained to defend myself- and yes it still affects me.

[dogpet]

Davin wrote

So the mother got a sex change and fucked her mother?

I suppose it could read like that, but no, the bit after the plea was the reaction of the rabble.

[Irreligious]

dogpet wrote

I've been blatantly asked for sex several times by female strangers, (not a less than subtle invite to coffee either), both in the street & in hotels, also by men twice. A polite no thank you, or I'm not interested is usually enough, but who am I to demand they don't do it & deny others who might welcome their advances.

Male or female, gay or straight, I think it's incredibly presumptuous behavior (and potentially threatening) to proposition a stranger for sex. I, too, have been approached in this manner by strangers, both male and female, good-looking and not. Regardless, I always found it to be a creepy and unsettling experience.

Granted, sensibilities are going to vary across the human spectrum, but if a man is present to hear a woman articulating in a panel discussion on feminism that she prefers it if strange men do not proposition her, why on earth would he choose to "corner" her alone in an elevator and invite her to accompany him to his room? Did he think that her earlier, publicly expressed protestations were some type of come-on?

And your own nonchalance aside regarding being approached by strangers for sex, the pursued person can't always judge in advance whether or not a polite no will suffice, particularly if he or she is trapped in a box with their would-be pursuer, knows nothing about the individual or that individual's predilections, and it's apparent that the pursuer possesses more physical strength.

[Davin]

dogpet wrote

I suppose it could read like that, but no, the bit after the plea was the reaction of the rabble.

lol, wut?

[dogpet]

Irreligious wrote

Male or female, gay or straight, I think it's incredibly presumptuous behavior (and potentially threatening) to proposition a stranger for sex. I, too, have been approached in this manner by strangers, both male and female, good-looking and not. Regardless, I always found it to be a creepy and unsettling experience.

Granted, sensibilities are going to vary across the human spectrum, but if a man is present to hear a woman articulating in a panel discussion on feminism that she prefers it if strange men do not proposition her, why on earth would he choose to "corner" her alone in an elevator and invite her to accompany him to his room? Did he think that her earlier, publicly expressed protestations were some type of come-on?

And your own nonchalance aside regarding being approached by strangers for sex, the pursued person can't always judge in advance whether or not a polite no will suffice, particularly if he or she is trapped in a box with their would-be pursuer, knows nothing about the individual or that individual's predilections, and it's apparent that the pursuer possesses more physical strength.

That's fair, & I deleted the post because it's not what I meant to say. What I meant was that isolated incidents, many horrific, are being misused as a means to promote societal dogma that many can't identify with. That may not be what the original correspondent intended, but it has spawned a whole host of repressed party police & dance monitors.

The fuck is a surly? Sounds like some kind of new age crucifix where anyone not wearing one is condemned to the bad fires of Coventry. Far be it for me to intrude on personal grief, but it seems a lot of our friends are pining for the order of religion & fear rejection by bullies.

On a brighter note, we can at least now point in the right direction when the lost wander in here looking for Atheists.

[dogpet]

Davin wrote

lol, wut?

"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

[Davin]

dogpet wrote

"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

"Sorry I'm late, I've been choking the nun, if you know what I mean." -Ryan Stiles

[psychodiva]

Casual harassment - its not just about the occasional proposition

"Just last week I happened to be awake at 3 am and heard “go away, stop it” from outside my apartment window. Of course I was worried and wound up going outside with my cell phone and my pocket knife (the cell phone so I could pretend I was on it). I found a woman across the street, 18-20, somewhat drunk and trying to pull away from a guy claiming to be her boyfriend. After walking to the end of the block and back I sucked it up and stopped right next to them and asked her if she was okay. No. I asked if she knew him. Yes. I asked if he was her boyfriend. No. I asked if she wanted to go with him. No. I told her she could come with me. He wouldn’t let go of her arm and kept talking to her with the platitudes women are familiar with - come on baby, I’ll take you home, just hang out with me, we were having such a good time - and eventually he gave in after seeing I had my finger on the dial button, but he was vibrating on the spot and he was pissed. Then he kept talking to me with all the insults women are familiar with - bitch, cunt, stupid fucking slut, etcetera forever. And of course he went after her for “leading him on.” I got her in a cab from my front door and went so far as to make sure I didn’t turn on any lights when I went inside so he wouldn’t know that my apartment was on the basement level facing the street where he was standing.

But this isn’t a problem or anything.

A few months ago I was working late shifts at work and getting off at 3 am. I only live a few blocks from there, so I was walking home. This was when there was a series of attacks against women in my neighbourhood. Not rapes, but escalating attempts to harm women, involving choking. So yes, I was on red alert. A group of five men from the bars saw me walking home. They started calling out to me - again, with all the lines women are used to (that, by the way guys, are not in the least bit attractive) - hey baby, where you goin, come on just stay and chat, a pretty thing like you shouldn’t be going home alone, where do you live. I ignored them and walked faster, and they sped up to keep up with me. Five men in their 20s. Following me home, drunk, and getting progressively angrier that I wouldn’t talk to them. “Why the fuck you being so rude? We just want to talk, quit being such a frigid bitch.” *guffaw guffaw* “Baby come on slow down, have some coffee with us.” I walked even faster, still not talking to them. I have foot and knee injuries, so this was getting really painful and I couldn’t have broken into a run if I’d tried. They thought this whole thing was quite hilarious and quite rude of me, never mind that I’m the one being followed home by drunk strangers. I finally looped a block and backtracked to the main road, which is really well-lit, and plopped myself dead centre in the middle of the ambulance-police combo that is in front of one of the bars every Saturday night without fail.

But street harassment isn’t a problem or anything.

Walking down a bright road in daylight, men lean out of car windows and honk and cheer at me and my friends. This has been happening since I was 14. Many of them are stuck at the same light we are, so we spend a good two minutes listening to them ask us to flash them. “Just show us your titties, we’ll give you each $5!”

Going to a bar and getting my ass groped at the bar as a precursor to offering to buy me a drink. I don’t know if men think this is a demonstration of their sexual abilities, or what, but it happens all the time.

Walking home from Walmart at 10pm and having a guy walk by me say “nice titties” thinking I can’t hear him because I have headphones in. Worst of all, spinning in anger and having to keep my mouth shut, because it could get a lot worse really fast.

Being “accidentally” groped on buses and trains frequently (they say they’re stumbling and that’s where their hands end up, but come on: I’m on the same vehicle, there was no jolt, and even if their was my hands don’t wind up on them), and not being able to complain without everybody thinking you’re crazy.

Dancing at a bar and having a guy slide his hand down the front of my pants. And then getting thrown out for elbowing him and shoving him away from me.

Getting told to smile by strangers (always men), and being told to cheer up, like I owe them a certain mood.

Having a guy you slept with once sit outside your house for seven hours, and then try to follow you inside while you pretend not to notice his car, and then disregard your requests through the intercom to leave you alone. And then, when you finally call the police, having the policeman call you back to say “He’s leaving, but he sounded sincerely sorry. You shouldn’t be so hard on him, he sounds like a nice guy.” Yeah, give him your home address then.

Having male customers look you up and down like you’re on the menu, and not being able to slap the customer who grabs your ass while you’re cleaning tables because you’ll be fired.

Finding out your sister’s employer felt comfortable uttering threats to punch her in the face for accusing him of being unfair, and her not feeling like she could tell anybody.

Having my male boss feel like he can touch me, rub my shoulders, call me honey and sweetheart and baby, and him being right, he can do those things, because everybody calls you oversensitive if you complain about those things.

Being followed home numerous times, both on foot and by car, being forced to talk to the guy who sits next to you on the bus for 45 minutes straight, and since I couldn’t think of a non-threatening way not to give him my phone number, I did so that I could get away. It took him a year and a half to stop calling me. Being told I’m paranoid for carrying any kind of protection, and stupid for not protecting myself, I’m a misandrist for assuming the worst of strange men, and stupid for having a conversation, I’m rude for asking men to leave me alone, and stupid and weak for not being more direct and assertive. Being told to go out and have fun more, stop being so uptight, and having that thrown in my face when something happens, because if I had some morals and didn’t advertise myself as, I don’t know, being alive or something, nothing would have happened. Being told to give him a chance and then being told to stop leading him on. Having to know all of the escape routes on my way home, and sending staff to the dumpsters in pairs. Having it be a fucking brave thing to do to stand next to a girl so she can walk away from the guy trying to bully her into going home with him.

And then having to listen to people say, “You’re exaggerating. Men aren’t like that, quit trying to see the worst in people. Men get harassed too, just ignore them and walk away. It’s the same thing.” Listening to people just step right over the fact that if woman deems a guy creepy, she’s told she’s being too critical and she needs to lower her standards, but if a man deems a woman possessive, controlling, demanding, jealous, bitchy, clingy, psycho, on her period, whiny, or outright dangerous he’s commended on his standards and congratulated on a bullet deftly dodged.

How many women does it take to bring these things to light before people stop thinking we’re crazy, over-critical bitches?"

[psychodiva]

I wish I could get Dogpet and others to live life as a (convincing) female for a week or so

Walk a Mile in Her Shoes

[dogpet]

I've no idea what you're shooting for diva, but you won't be getting any dinner. You have heard of association fallacy, I know, so I can only think you are blinkered by agenda.

[Davin]

Do you know what the association fallacy is, dogpet? Because you're not applying it correctly.

[dogpet]

Davin wrote

Do you know what the association fallacy is, dogpet? Because you're not applying it correctly.

Oh I'm applying it near enough. Furthermore I'm not going to make the same mistake as diva by accusing you of thinking I need educating on the plight of perpetual victims, particularly when that tactic is a snide part of a much larger red herring that I hope you wouldn't associate yourself with.

[psychodiva]

dogpet wrote

I've no idea what you're shooting for diva, but you won't be getting any dinner. You have heard of association fallacy, I know, so I can only think you are blinkered by agenda.

oh good grief- I'm not 'shooting for' anything- I am merely making things plain to idiots and dolts - read or don't read it - see yourself in it or not- i don't care either way - but I will continue to post. 'Blinkered by agenda' ROFL

[psychodiva]

dogpet wrote

Oh I'm applying it near enough. Furthermore I'm not going to make the same mistake as diva by accusing you of thinking I need educating on the plight of perpetual victims, particularly when that tactic is a snide part of a much larger red herring that I hope you wouldn't associate yourself with.

QED

[dogpet]

psychodiva wrote

oh good grief- I'm not 'shooting for' anything- I am merely making things plain to idiots and dolts - read or don't read it - see yourself in it or not- i don't care either way - but I will continue to post. 'Blinkered by agenda' ROFL

At least I got you to write something . There are probably loads of 2 people here who hang on your every link, but I'm not the other one.