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Old 08-03-2008, 05:23 AM   #1
Godlovesyou
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i am a born again evangelical christian

hi all

my name is angelo. i am a born again evangelical christian. i would like to share
my belief with who ever wants to know better the christian faith. i am not here to try to convert anyone , because, this is a personal decision, but to explain issues, that many of you might have pre judgement and not a comprehensive knowledge. I intend to respect anyone's convictions here, and expect the same of you.

So let me make my first question. Why are you atheist, and what evidence do you have to claim, God does not exist ?

here a text to think about :

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-208.htm

Now when I say the word "chance" we take it back to its etymology, it once was largely restricted to describing mathematical probability. Where we could say, "Well, if I go over there there's a chance I might see her because she may be coming this way." Or, "If I put this money in this account there's a chance this might happen and I'll make this amount of money." "If I...if I move into that community and begin to meet some people there's a chance there that I might develop some interest in my business." There's a mathematical probability. That's what chance basically used to mean. And then it kind of got broadened a little bit and it took on broader application to include any unpredictable event, any sort of probability no matter how remote or any coincidence no matter how seemingly impossible.

But let me tell you about chance. Chance doesn't exist, it's nothing...it's nothing. Chance is a word used to explain something else. But chance isn't anything. It's not a force. Chance doesn't make anything happen. Chance doesn't exist. It's only a way to explain something else. Chance didn't make you meet that person, you were going there when she was going there, that's why you met her. Chance didn't have anything to do with it because chance doesn't exist. It's nothing. But in modern evolution its been transformed into a force of causal power. It's been elevated from being nothing to being everything. Chance makes things happen. Chance is the myth that serves to undergird the chaos view of reality.

I mean, this is so fraught with problems from a rational or philosophical viewpoint you hardly know where to begin. How do you get the initial matter upon which chance operates? Where does that come? You would have to say, "Well, chance made it appear." You know what? This sounds so ridiculous and yet this is the undergirding philosophy behind evolution. It is completely incoherent and irrational. But the new evolutionary paradigm is chance. And it's the opposite of logic.

You see, when you abandon logic and logic says, "Oh, there's a universe. Hum...somebody made it." What else would logic say? "There's a building, somebody made it. There's a piano, somebody made it. There's a universe, more complex than a building, infinitely more complex than a piano, somebody...somebody who is very, very powerful and very, very intelligent made it."

You say, "No, no, chance made it." Listen, folks, that's rational suicide, that's not logical. Logic abandoned leaves you with myth and the enemies of mythology, the enemies of mythology are empirical data and God-given reason. So in order to be an evolutionist and believe that chance makes things happen, you have to do two things: reject the empirical data, and be irrational. But if you love your sin enough, you'll do it. You see, if you can just eliminate the empirical data, the evidence, and get rid of God-given logic and those two things are the essence of pure science, if you can get rid of those things then mythology runs wild. And as one writer said, "Chance is the new soft pillow for science to lie down on." Arthur Kessler said, "As long as chance rules, God is an anachronism." If chance rules, God can't rule. Chance deposes God. The very existence of chance rips God from His sovereign throne.
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Old 08-03-2008, 05:53 AM   #2
Mog
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You spend 4 paragraphs arguing against chance, but we never ever claim that chance is the entire reason for the universe. Or rather, you make the mistake and assume that all outcomes are always going to be equally likely. The fact is that absolute chance is not a stable state.

There is evidence of this in many different systems in many different fields.

Natural selection actually argues the opposite of chance. That is, some outcomes are going to be naturally magnitudes more likely than others. Maybe you should go understand more about the science behind evolution and the universe before accusing us of being illogical.

"It's puzzling that Eden is synonymous with paradise when, if you think about it at all, it's more like a maximum-security prison with twenty-four hour surveillance." -Ann Druyan
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Old 08-03-2008, 05:57 AM   #3
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You spend 4 paragraphs arguing against chance, but we never ever claim that chance is the entire reason for the universe. Or rather, you make the mistake and assume that all outcomes are always going to be equally likely. The fact is that absolute chance is not a stable state.

There is evidence of this in many different systems in many different fields.
A creator would see to it that probability is on the side of what it wants to happen.
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Old 08-03-2008, 06:04 AM   #4
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A creator would see to it that probability is on the side of what it wants to happen.
Right, but there's no evidence that there is any need to do that, Xans. As I said, absolute chaos is unstable, so regardless of whether a deity interferes or not, we're going to get some stable states in the mix.

"It's puzzling that Eden is synonymous with paradise when, if you think about it at all, it's more like a maximum-security prison with twenty-four hour surveillance." -Ann Druyan
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Old 08-03-2008, 06:08 AM   #5
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So let me make my first question. Why are you atheist, and what evidence do you have to claim, God does not exist ?
It's been said before, but I'll say it again.

We don't need to provide the evidence, because you are the one trying to prove something.

So far, there has been no compelling evidence put forward.

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Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.
Charles Darwin.
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Old 08-03-2008, 06:13 AM   #6
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i am a born again evangelical christian.
You have my deepest sympathy.

Stop the Holy See men!
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Old 08-03-2008, 06:42 AM   #7
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Godlovesyou wrote View Post
hi all

my name is angelo. i am a born again evangelical christian. i would like to share
my belief with who ever wants to know better the christian faith. i am not here to try to convert anyone , because, this is a personal decision, but to explain issues, that many of you might have pre judgement and not a comprehensive knowledge. I intend to respect anyone's convictions here, and expect the same of you.

blah blah blah etc etc etc

oh dear- here we go again- hello Angelo- wtf are you doing here then?

so - gonna actually debate something or just proselytise?

are you going to give any supporting references or evidence to what you are babbling about?

have you read anything about evolution or genetics or human social development or child development or neurology or physics or biology? or do you like just gambling and throwing dice because you sure do babble about 'chance' a lot

oh- and what Whisper said- we do not have to prove anything

'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." Fry
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Old 08-03-2008, 07:18 AM   #8
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This is a pretty simple video that demonstrates how chaotic systems can find resonance. A really dumbed down version of what you're arguing cannot happen. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1TMZASCR-I
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Old 08-03-2008, 07:20 AM   #9
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Whisper wrote View Post
It's been said before, but I'll say it again.

We don't need to provide the evidence, because you are the one trying to prove something.

So far, there has been no compelling evidence put forward.
QFT, the onus sadly rests on those that have no desire to attempt to prove god.
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Old 08-03-2008, 08:06 AM   #10
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Quote:
Godlovesyou wrote View Post
hi all

my name is angelo. i am a born again evangelical christian. i would like to share
my belief with who ever wants to know better the christian faith. i am not here to try to convert anyone , because, this is a personal decision, but to explain issues, that many of you might have pre judgement and not a comprehensive knowledge. I intend to respect anyone's convictions here, and expect the same of you.

So let me make my first question. Why are you atheist, and what evidence do you have to claim, God does not exist ?

here a text to think about :

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-208.htm

Now when I say the word "chance" we take it back to its etymology, it once was largely restricted to describing mathematical probability. Where we could say, "Well, if I go over there there's a chance I might see her because she may be coming this way." Or, "If I put this money in this account there's a chance this might happen and I'll make this amount of money." "If I...if I move into that community and begin to meet some people there's a chance there that I might develop some interest in my business." There's a mathematical probability. That's what chance basically used to mean. And then it kind of got broadened a little bit and it took on broader application to include any unpredictable event, any sort of probability no matter how remote or any coincidence no matter how seemingly impossible.

But let me tell you about chance. Chance doesn't exist, it's nothing...it's nothing. Chance is a word used to explain something else. But chance isn't anything. It's not a force. Chance doesn't make anything happen. Chance doesn't exist. It's only a way to explain something else. Chance didn't make you meet that person, you were going there when she was going there, that's why you met her. Chance didn't have anything to do with it because chance doesn't exist. It's nothing. But in modern evolution its been transformed into a force of causal power. It's been elevated from being nothing to being everything. Chance makes things happen. Chance is the myth that serves to undergird the chaos view of reality.

I mean, this is so fraught with problems from a rational or philosophical viewpoint you hardly know where to begin. How do you get the initial matter upon which chance operates? Where does that come? You would have to say, "Well, chance made it appear." You know what? This sounds so ridiculous and yet this is the undergirding philosophy behind evolution. It is completely incoherent and irrational. But the new evolutionary paradigm is chance. And it's the opposite of logic.

You see, when you abandon logic and logic says, "Oh, there's a universe. Hum...somebody made it." What else would logic say? "There's a building, somebody made it. There's a piano, somebody made it. There's a universe, more complex than a building, infinitely more complex than a piano, somebody...somebody who is very, very powerful and very, very intelligent made it."

You say, "No, no, chance made it." Listen, folks, that's rational suicide, that's not logical. Logic abandoned leaves you with myth and the enemies of mythology, the enemies of mythology are empirical data and God-given reason. So in order to be an evolutionist and believe that chance makes things happen, you have to do two things: reject the empirical data, and be irrational. But if you love your sin enough, you'll do it. You see, if you can just eliminate the empirical data, the evidence, and get rid of God-given logic and those two things are the essence of pure science, if you can get rid of those things then mythology runs wild. And as one writer said, "Chance is the new soft pillow for science to lie down on." Arthur Kessler said, "As long as chance rules, God is an anachronism." If chance rules, God can't rule. Chance deposes God. The very existence of chance rips God from His sovereign throne.


What else would logic say? "There's a god, somebody made it."

The Leprechauns do not forbid the drawing of Their images, as long as we color within the lines. ~ Ghoulslime H Christ, Prophet, Seer, Revelator, and Masturbator
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Old 08-03-2008, 08:06 AM   #11
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Godlovesyou wrote View Post
hi all

my name is angelo. i am a born again evangelical christian. i would like to share my belief with who ever wants to know better the christian faith.
Hi Angelo, as a group we are already experts on your particular delusion & require no further instruction, thanks all the same.

Quote:
So let me make my first question. Why are you atheist, and what evidence do you have to claim, God does not exist ?
That's 2 questions, are you trying to confuse me?

I have a question. What chance is there of you keeping your nonsense to yourself?

thank goodness he's on our side
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Old 08-03-2008, 08:09 AM   #12
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Another drive-by. He won't be back.

"Science and Mother Nature are in a marriage where Science is always surprised to come home and find Mother Nature blowing the neighbor." - Justin's Dad
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Old 08-03-2008, 08:24 AM   #13
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Quote:
Godlovesyou wrote View Post
hi all

my name is angelo. i am a born again evangelical christian. i would like to share
my belief with who ever wants to know better the christian faith. i am not here to try to convert anyone , because, this is a personal decision, but to explain issues, that many of you might have pre judgement and not a comprehensive knowledge. I intend to respect anyone's convictions here, and expect the same of you.

So let me make my first question. Why are you atheist, and what evidence do you have to claim, God does not exist ?

here a text to think about :

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-208.htm

Now when I say the word "chance" we take it back to its etymology, it once was largely restricted to describing mathematical probability. Where we could say, "Well, if I go over there there's a chance I might see her because she may be coming this way." Or, "If I put this money in this account there's a chance this might happen and I'll make this amount of money." "If I...if I move into that community and begin to meet some people there's a chance there that I might develop some interest in my business." There's a mathematical probability. That's what chance basically used to mean. And then it kind of got broadened a little bit and it took on broader application to include any unpredictable event, any sort of probability no matter how remote or any coincidence no matter how seemingly impossible.

But let me tell you about chance. Chance doesn't exist, it's nothing...it's nothing. Chance is a word used to explain something else. But chance isn't anything. It's not a force. Chance doesn't make anything happen. Chance doesn't exist. It's only a way to explain something else. Chance didn't make you meet that person, you were going there when she was going there, that's why you met her. Chance didn't have anything to do with it because chance doesn't exist. It's nothing. But in modern evolution its been transformed into a force of causal power. It's been elevated from being nothing to being everything. Chance makes things happen. Chance is the myth that serves to undergird the chaos view of reality.

I mean, this is so fraught with problems from a rational or philosophical viewpoint you hardly know where to begin. How do you get the initial matter upon which chance operates? Where does that come? You would have to say, "Well, chance made it appear." You know what? This sounds so ridiculous and yet this is the undergirding philosophy behind evolution. It is completely incoherent and irrational. But the new evolutionary paradigm is chance. And it's the opposite of logic.

You see, when you abandon logic and logic says, "Oh, there's a universe. Hum...somebody made it." What else would logic say? "There's a building, somebody made it. There's a piano, somebody made it. There's a universe, more complex than a building, infinitely more complex than a piano, somebody...somebody who is very, very powerful and very, very intelligent made it."

You say, "No, no, chance made it." Listen, folks, that's rational suicide, that's not logical. Logic abandoned leaves you with myth and the enemies of mythology, the enemies of mythology are empirical data and God-given reason. So in order to be an evolutionist and believe that chance makes things happen, you have to do two things: reject the empirical data, and be irrational. But if you love your sin enough, you'll do it. You see, if you can just eliminate the empirical data, the evidence, and get rid of God-given logic and those two things are the essence of pure science, if you can get rid of those things then mythology runs wild. And as one writer said, "Chance is the new soft pillow for science to lie down on." Arthur Kessler said, "As long as chance rules, God is an anachronism." If chance rules, God can't rule. Chance deposes God. The very existence of chance rips God from His sovereign throne.
How long have you had Christ-psychosis? I suggest you see a neurologist for a brain is an awful thing to waste. Get well soon.

Christians and other folks infected with delusional beliefs think and reason like schizophrenics or temporal lobe epileptics. Their morality is dictated by an invisible friend called Jesus.
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Old 08-03-2008, 09:45 AM   #14
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@ GodLovesYou.


Please, go kill yourself and get out of our hair & enjoy your false paradise.

Enjoy

- Jared.
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Old 08-03-2008, 12:20 PM   #15
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...my name is angelo. i am a born again evangelical christian.
My prediction to your future life:

1) You are going to gain at least 100 lbs.

2) Your blood pressure is going to start raising from all the hate you are going to start spewing against gays, lesbians, atheists and other religions.

3) Your personal relations with the people you love the most are going to be destroyed and your family, most likely, is going to fall apart.

I feel so sorry for you, and I mean it, from the bottom of my heart. I hope one day you are able get away from those evangelical Christians who are ruining your life. Don't let them manipulate you. Your family your peace and health are worth more than that. I hope it's not too late for you.
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